How many different MB transmission cases were there?
- Chance
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Re: How many different MB transmission cases were there?
NOS covered in cosmoline
Can anyone ID this mark? It is the only mark on the case.
Any help on the top cover?
I've spent several hours now going through the G503 with no luck. Also there are what looks like great threads on topics here but the image links are all broken. These I noticed are mostly older threads 2011-ish and older.
Can anyone ID this mark? It is the only mark on the case.
Any help on the top cover?
I've spent several hours now going through the G503 with no luck. Also there are what looks like great threads on topics here but the image links are all broken. These I noticed are mostly older threads 2011-ish and older.
Chance
1943 - January | Willys MB "Skimpy" | Frame No. #203301
1943 - January | Willys MB-T | Serial No. 21488
1943 - January | Willys MB "Skimpy" | Frame No. #203301
1943 - January | Willys MB-T | Serial No. 21488
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: How many different MB transmission cases were there?
Check Brent Mullins' website, I believe he carries these French Army cases.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
- Chance
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Re: How many different MB transmission cases were there?
Is it French? I don't know. I don't see anything on his website that displays these markings unfortunately.
Chance
1943 - January | Willys MB "Skimpy" | Frame No. #203301
1943 - January | Willys MB-T | Serial No. 21488
1943 - January | Willys MB "Skimpy" | Frame No. #203301
1943 - January | Willys MB-T | Serial No. 21488
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: How many different MB transmission cases were there?
Nevertheless...it is a French case (WOF)...here is another:
Generally speaking, the French T84 parts are as good as Ford/WG parts. However, I assume that the French Army also had the occasional reject that may hve made its way back into the system....I hear that happened in the US back in the day as well.
Generally speaking, the French T84 parts are as good as Ford/WG parts. However, I assume that the French Army also had the occasional reject that may hve made its way back into the system....I hear that happened in the US back in the day as well.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
- Chance
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Re: How many different MB transmission cases were there?
Chuck as usual, many thanks, truly. I learn something all the time here! Awesome.
Chance
1943 - January | Willys MB "Skimpy" | Frame No. #203301
1943 - January | Willys MB-T | Serial No. 21488
1943 - January | Willys MB "Skimpy" | Frame No. #203301
1943 - January | Willys MB-T | Serial No. 21488
- Chance
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Re: How many different MB transmission cases were there?
Okay here's one for you guys. T84J-1A, passenger side has the blanks (?) for the drain ports, but drain ports are on the driver's side of the housing. This has F 257 - 2 on it. If I understand this thread, then this was made June 2nd, 1957? But then there is the plate which reads 7-24 (July 24th at the foundry?). Also for education...when was the T84J-1A discontinued? When where cases kicked out without the drain port blanks on the passenger side?
I know from Chuck's post that this is Frank Brothers Foundry. What do the stamped 37 and 2 mean?
I know from Chuck's post that this is Frank Brothers Foundry. What do the stamped 37 and 2 mean?
Chance
1943 - January | Willys MB "Skimpy" | Frame No. #203301
1943 - January | Willys MB-T | Serial No. 21488
1943 - January | Willys MB "Skimpy" | Frame No. #203301
1943 - January | Willys MB-T | Serial No. 21488
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: How many different MB transmission cases were there?
Downright confusin' ain't it?
Let's look further....it is a LSF (left side fill) so it is AFTER about December 1942.
It has a "7-24" casting date code meaning July 24th.
It isn't a "High Fill" marked (H) case which I believe went into production in late 1944.
That tells me it is a 7/24/43 or 7/24/43 CASTING.
WG cases have an assembly date code on them. Like this one: and this one: Note that the ASSEMBLY code is translated as:
E = May
31 = 31st
45 = 1945
D = unknown to me but I have seen a "D" on most cases....
Now, your case has not only "F257-2" on it, but many "inspectors" stamps on it as shown in your pictures...
I would guess this is a "replacement" case and the rebuild date was stamped on the boss....or, from the appearacne of the grind marks on the tab, that the original date code might have been removed and this one put on the case. One or the other make the most sense here....but the sideways "I" and the "2" are not what you would expect to see on WG built T84s.
However, if Warner Gear recieved a post war contract to supply completely rebuilt T84s, then it might have been cast on "7-24" in a later year but this seems less likely. A clue might help here....are the parts marked with WG part numbers, Ford marks/part numbers or French "WOF" marks>
Let's look further....it is a LSF (left side fill) so it is AFTER about December 1942.
It has a "7-24" casting date code meaning July 24th.
It isn't a "High Fill" marked (H) case which I believe went into production in late 1944.
That tells me it is a 7/24/43 or 7/24/43 CASTING.
WG cases have an assembly date code on them. Like this one: and this one: Note that the ASSEMBLY code is translated as:
E = May
31 = 31st
45 = 1945
D = unknown to me but I have seen a "D" on most cases....
Now, your case has not only "F257-2" on it, but many "inspectors" stamps on it as shown in your pictures...
I would guess this is a "replacement" case and the rebuild date was stamped on the boss....or, from the appearacne of the grind marks on the tab, that the original date code might have been removed and this one put on the case. One or the other make the most sense here....but the sideways "I" and the "2" are not what you would expect to see on WG built T84s.
However, if Warner Gear recieved a post war contract to supply completely rebuilt T84s, then it might have been cast on "7-24" in a later year but this seems less likely. A clue might help here....are the parts marked with WG part numbers, Ford marks/part numbers or French "WOF" marks>
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
- Chance
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Re: How many different MB transmission cases were there?
OMG this is making sense to me. I want to make sure though. So the case was made by Frank Brothers Foundry and it is likely a 7-24-43 date of manufacture. But the stamping are those used by Warner (is that Warner Gear, WG?). Because of the grind marks and inspector stamps likely rebuilt in 1957 by Warner. Then Frank Bros made the cases and then they went to other companies to be built? Or also did Frank Bros complete the assemblies too?
I could not detect any markings on the parts within the assembly, Chuck. Otherwise, I believe I went over the case pretty well and I did not see any other markings to take pictures of. This is really interesting, thank you for sharing! Then I wonder about the rest. If there might be some other obscure marking on the case I can hunt for it and report. I also wonder how many have discounted these cases thinking that because of date stamping it wasn't WW2, per se. That's experience for ya.
I could not detect any markings on the parts within the assembly, Chuck. Otherwise, I believe I went over the case pretty well and I did not see any other markings to take pictures of. This is really interesting, thank you for sharing! Then I wonder about the rest. If there might be some other obscure marking on the case I can hunt for it and report. I also wonder how many have discounted these cases thinking that because of date stamping it wasn't WW2, per se. That's experience for ya.
Chance
1943 - January | Willys MB "Skimpy" | Frame No. #203301
1943 - January | Willys MB-T | Serial No. 21488
1943 - January | Willys MB "Skimpy" | Frame No. #203301
1943 - January | Willys MB-T | Serial No. 21488
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: How many different MB transmission cases were there?
Warner Gear supplied Willys
Warner Gear apparently had insuffecient casting ability so they jobbed out some case castings.
Warner Gear even obtained some GPW bare cases!
Warner Gear stamped the assembly code on the cases as they did the assembly in-house.
I think the "7-24" is probably 1943 or 1944.
I think the "date code" is either restamped on a "scrubbed" case or a post war assembly date code.
Hard to tell if a T84 has been rebuilt "in the system" as some have rebuild tags attached to the case and others could have been rebuilt by an early civilian owner or anyone but those numbers here and there indicate to me they are inspectors stamps.
Some of this is speculation but not many Willys T84s (non-Ford cases) show up with something other than a date code like the ones I posted above.
However....with a 7-24 casting, it being a LSF case, not being an "H" style...and the date code invisible once the trans is installed...it would be a candidate for an MB delivered in the weeks after 7/24/43 and 7/24/44 in my estimation.
Warner Gear apparently had insuffecient casting ability so they jobbed out some case castings.
Warner Gear even obtained some GPW bare cases!
Warner Gear stamped the assembly code on the cases as they did the assembly in-house.
I think the "7-24" is probably 1943 or 1944.
I think the "date code" is either restamped on a "scrubbed" case or a post war assembly date code.
Hard to tell if a T84 has been rebuilt "in the system" as some have rebuild tags attached to the case and others could have been rebuilt by an early civilian owner or anyone but those numbers here and there indicate to me they are inspectors stamps.
Some of this is speculation but not many Willys T84s (non-Ford cases) show up with something other than a date code like the ones I posted above.
However....with a 7-24 casting, it being a LSF case, not being an "H" style...and the date code invisible once the trans is installed...it would be a candidate for an MB delivered in the weeks after 7/24/43 and 7/24/44 in my estimation.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
- Chance
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Re: How many different MB transmission cases were there?
Got it! Thank you, sir.
Chance
1943 - January | Willys MB "Skimpy" | Frame No. #203301
1943 - January | Willys MB-T | Serial No. 21488
1943 - January | Willys MB "Skimpy" | Frame No. #203301
1943 - January | Willys MB-T | Serial No. 21488
- Chance
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Re: How many different MB transmission cases were there?
I have pictures of a Warner Gear case I have, just wanted to add to the reference information out there:
The date tag reads: 1-27
The stamping reads: C 543 D
March 5th, 1943
This stamping reads: B That is an inspector stamp presumably. Correct me if wrong.
So I'm confused in that this case too has the Frank Bros Foundry mark on it, because this case also reads WG and my other transmission didn't have WG on it, but was a Warner Gear. But am surmising that it's really irrelevant since FBF (Frank Bros Foundry), as Chuck stated, was contracted to make the cases for Warner Gear. So, do we know when "WG" began to appear on the outside of cases manufactured by FBF? Or is it all over the place
I'll post pictures next of the Ford Transmission that I have to help with this reference thread.
The date tag reads: 1-27
The stamping reads: C 543 D
March 5th, 1943
This stamping reads: B That is an inspector stamp presumably. Correct me if wrong.
So I'm confused in that this case too has the Frank Bros Foundry mark on it, because this case also reads WG and my other transmission didn't have WG on it, but was a Warner Gear. But am surmising that it's really irrelevant since FBF (Frank Bros Foundry), as Chuck stated, was contracted to make the cases for Warner Gear. So, do we know when "WG" began to appear on the outside of cases manufactured by FBF? Or is it all over the place
I'll post pictures next of the Ford Transmission that I have to help with this reference thread.
Chance
1943 - January | Willys MB "Skimpy" | Frame No. #203301
1943 - January | Willys MB-T | Serial No. 21488
1943 - January | Willys MB "Skimpy" | Frame No. #203301
1943 - January | Willys MB-T | Serial No. 21488
- Chance
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Re: How many different MB transmission cases were there?
GPW 7006 Transmssion Case Markings:
Assuming this is an inspector's stamping: "A"
Assuming this is an inspector's stamping: "A"
Chance
1943 - January | Willys MB "Skimpy" | Frame No. #203301
1943 - January | Willys MB-T | Serial No. 21488
1943 - January | Willys MB "Skimpy" | Frame No. #203301
1943 - January | Willys MB-T | Serial No. 21488