Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.
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shocker mounts
Ian just to clarify the shocker mounts on MB 119955 has the flat bar type as in Jeffs photo.I hope this helps narrow the change
Scott
Scott
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Hi Al, I read something in the SNL, but i am not sure it was in reference to the radiator studs. It was another frame change if i remember correctly! now i will have to go back and see what it was!
Scott, thankyou for that! Now it becomes a bit confusing here! Darth (see page 4) stated that his estimated SN of 111XXX has the curved reinforcing but Scotts verified 119955 has the straight mounts. However darth has no verified SN for the chassis, only estimated of other knowns- based on a body, as a result for the moment we might have to leave darths jeep aside from the research unitl we have something more verified? I mean no offense by this Darth.
Also darth, if you are reading this, i would assume then that your SN is greater than the 111XX estimated? however it doesnt explain the body. Possibly then the chassis and body were changed? Does the chassis have the short reinforcing straps?
So now we can assume that the rear shocky mount change occurred between MB 119955 and MB 127470.
LOOKING FOR MB'S BETWEEN MB 119955 and MB 127470. WHAT SORT OF REAR SHOCK MOUNT DO YOU HAVE? See pictures on page 3 for the differences.
Also looking for MB's before MB 290463 for the change to the rear spring hanger support.
Still looking for MB's around the 140XXX mark to verify short or long reinforcement straps across the chassis rails.
Ian.
Scott, thankyou for that! Now it becomes a bit confusing here! Darth (see page 4) stated that his estimated SN of 111XXX has the curved reinforcing but Scotts verified 119955 has the straight mounts. However darth has no verified SN for the chassis, only estimated of other knowns- based on a body, as a result for the moment we might have to leave darths jeep aside from the research unitl we have something more verified? I mean no offense by this Darth.
Also darth, if you are reading this, i would assume then that your SN is greater than the 111XX estimated? however it doesnt explain the body. Possibly then the chassis and body were changed? Does the chassis have the short reinforcing straps?
So now we can assume that the rear shocky mount change occurred between MB 119955 and MB 127470.
LOOKING FOR MB'S BETWEEN MB 119955 and MB 127470. WHAT SORT OF REAR SHOCK MOUNT DO YOU HAVE? See pictures on page 3 for the differences.
Also looking for MB's before MB 290463 for the change to the rear spring hanger support.
Still looking for MB's around the 140XXX mark to verify short or long reinforcement straps across the chassis rails.
Ian.
Australian Jeep Investigator
MB: 131175
GPW: 11730.
GPW: 225290.
Aust trailer: GMH 3- #211
http://www.vintageengines.net
MB: 131175
GPW: 11730.
GPW: 225290.
Aust trailer: GMH 3- #211
http://www.vintageengines.net
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Spring hanger support gusset
Ian , The frame of MB 198354, has the 1/2 moon cut out on the rear face of the spring hanger support gusset. Bill
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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.
Is the early frame have short Reinforcement plate below same as the top? 1400mm or 55 1/8 in? Thanks in advance!
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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.
Yes.Is the early frame have short Reinforcement plate below same as the top? 1400mm or 55 1/8 in? Thanks in advance!
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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.
HI all,
Thought i would bubble this up. I edited the links so pictures should work too.
Please see another change to ID a date of inclusion. The addition of a FACTORY reinforcing plate to the rear spring hanger.
MB 429657
This was a jeep seen at the MJCQ swapmeet in 2007. Id forgotten about it until sorting some pics. I believe it was ex French army and/or a european 'return' (!) vehicle.
Cheers,
Ian.
Thought i would bubble this up. I edited the links so pictures should work too.
Please see another change to ID a date of inclusion. The addition of a FACTORY reinforcing plate to the rear spring hanger.
MB 429657
This was a jeep seen at the MJCQ swapmeet in 2007. Id forgotten about it until sorting some pics. I believe it was ex French army and/or a european 'return' (!) vehicle.
Cheers,
Ian.
Australian Jeep Investigator
MB: 131175
GPW: 11730.
GPW: 225290.
Aust trailer: GMH 3- #211
http://www.vintageengines.net
MB: 131175
GPW: 11730.
GPW: 225290.
Aust trailer: GMH 3- #211
http://www.vintageengines.net
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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.
I thought there might be some more people out there who can provide information for the MB's in the ranges in question:
LOOKING FOR:
*MB'S BETWEEN MB 119955 and MB 127470 for info on what sort of SHOCK ABSORBER MOUNT your chassis has- See pictures on page 3 for the differences.
*MB's BEFORE MB 198354 for the change to the rear spring hanger support (1/2 moon cut out or not)- See pictures on page 3 for the differences.
*MB's AROUND the 140XXX mark to verify short or long reinforcement straps across the chassis rails- See Page 1 for pictures/info.
*MB's without the Bond Strap studs on the front chassis cross member.
Thanks,
Ian.
LOOKING FOR:
*MB'S BETWEEN MB 119955 and MB 127470 for info on what sort of SHOCK ABSORBER MOUNT your chassis has- See pictures on page 3 for the differences.
*MB's BEFORE MB 198354 for the change to the rear spring hanger support (1/2 moon cut out or not)- See pictures on page 3 for the differences.
*MB's AROUND the 140XXX mark to verify short or long reinforcement straps across the chassis rails- See Page 1 for pictures/info.
*MB's without the Bond Strap studs on the front chassis cross member.
Thanks,
Ian.
Australian Jeep Investigator
MB: 131175
GPW: 11730.
GPW: 225290.
Aust trailer: GMH 3- #211
http://www.vintageengines.net
MB: 131175
GPW: 11730.
GPW: 225290.
Aust trailer: GMH 3- #211
http://www.vintageengines.net
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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.
Two MB's without the bond strap stud on front crossmember ; 309591 and 2916XX.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt"..Bertrand Russell
- Gary C V
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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.
MB 165271 has half moon cut out and bond strap studs.
Cheers Gary
Cheers Gary
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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.
Hello Ian,Ian Fawbert wrote:
Please see another change to ID a date of inclusion. The addition of a FACTORY reinforcing plate to the rear spring hanger.
MB 429657
....
This was a jeep seen at the MJCQ swapmeet in 2007. Id forgotten about it until sorting some pics. I believe it was ex French army and/or a european 'return' (!) vehicle.
Very interesting threat on the MB chassis identification. Thank you for doing this.
I have three jeeps that all did go through La Maltournée (French army rebuild) at some moment in time. One is a pure Hotchkiss (1962). The other two are jeep salads. One of both has been in La Maltournée in 1955 so no Hotchkiss components in that one (I have a restoration threat MB379881 Story). The other one lost it's MB identification tag and has several Hotchkiss parts (e;g. the tub is Hotchkiss). The chassis is MB however. It lost its MB identity but it has the reinforcement.
Anyway, as you can imagine I have been doing a lot of research on differences between MB and Hotchkiss. During this research I did find out that at a certain moment in time (apparantly 1946) most La Maltournée refurbished salad jeeps did get the reinforcing plate installed as part of the refurbishing.
It is thus a la Maltournée thing which was also standard on the Hotchkiss. if I remember well the French did install this reinforcement to have jeeps that better withstand a drop from certain altitude (with parachute?)
So, I do not think it is a factory thing and it should not count as a way of dating an MB chassis. Of course I can be wrong ...
Greetings
Hans
Last edited by htc on Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Living in Belgium
MB 379881
GPW 253827
MB 379881
GPW 253827
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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.
Ian is trying do demonstrate the "late" GPW and MB frames had this reinforcement from the factory.
Ed S
Ed S
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57 DJ-3A chassis for sale
56 DJ-3A for sale
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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.
I was wrong!htc wrote:
So, I do not think it is a factory thing and it should not count as a way of dating an MB chassis. Of course I can be wrong ...
Just in order to make sure that people who find this threat are not mislead by my statement above I would like to add a post admitting that
Indeed I was wrong. I was very wrong.
I refer to the following threat for the whole story including pictures: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=258034&start=45
The gusset is factory installed starting MB chassis 382141 (NOV 1944).
The gusset can be used to date an MB frame if the gussets are installed using rivets.
If they are installed using bolts then it is a modification done on an older chassis (before MB 382141)
There is a document (TB-9-803-FE7 dd Feb, 14 1945) in Lloyd White VOL 3 describing a modification that can be done in the field in order to reinforce the rear spring brackets. In this case the gussets are installed using bolts.
Sorry for the confusion.
Greetings
Hans
Living in Belgium
MB 379881
GPW 253827
MB 379881
GPW 253827
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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.
Bump.
Thought this might get some newer info from newer members.
Still trying up narrow down the change date/serial in top rail reinforcing strap.
Ian.
Thought this might get some newer info from newer members.
Still trying up narrow down the change date/serial in top rail reinforcing strap.
Ian.
Australian Jeep Investigator
MB: 131175
GPW: 11730.
GPW: 225290.
Aust trailer: GMH 3- #211
http://www.vintageengines.net
MB: 131175
GPW: 11730.
GPW: 225290.
Aust trailer: GMH 3- #211
http://www.vintageengines.net
- horrocks
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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.
Ian, I chanced upon this thread today, and have just taken the tub off of MB 127415.
It has short rail, the later type 'curled' rear shock tower, and the straight rear gusset without the moon-shaped cutout.
I think some years ago we estimated the DOD as 13th March 1942, but maybe someone can get me closer than that.
It has short rail, the later type 'curled' rear shock tower, and the straight rear gusset without the moon-shaped cutout.
I think some years ago we estimated the DOD as 13th March 1942, but maybe someone can get me closer than that.
Toby
Willys MB 3/13/42 127415
Willys MB 1/9/45 404620
Willys MB 3/13/42 127415
Willys MB 1/9/45 404620