Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
scott carpenter
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shocker mounts

Post by scott carpenter » Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:19 am

Ian just to clarify the shocker mounts on MB 119955 has the flat bar type as in Jeffs photo.I hope this helps narrow the change
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Post by Ian Fawbert » Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:33 pm

Hi Al, I read something in the SNL, but i am not sure it was in reference to the radiator studs. It was another frame change if i remember correctly! now i will have to go back and see what it was!

Scott, thankyou for that! Now it becomes a bit confusing here! Darth (see page 4) stated that his estimated SN of 111XXX has the curved reinforcing but Scotts verified 119955 has the straight mounts. However darth has no verified SN for the chassis, only estimated of other knowns- based on a body, as a result for the moment we might have to leave darths jeep aside from the research unitl we have something more verified? I mean no offense by this Darth.

Also darth, if you are reading this, i would assume then that your SN is greater than the 111XX estimated? however it doesnt explain the body. Possibly then the chassis and body were changed? Does the chassis have the short reinforcing straps?


So now we can assume that the rear shocky mount change occurred between MB 119955 and MB 127470.

LOOKING FOR MB'S BETWEEN MB 119955 and MB 127470. WHAT SORT OF REAR SHOCK MOUNT DO YOU HAVE? See pictures on page 3 for the differences.

Also looking for MB's before MB 290463 for the change to the rear spring hanger support.

Still looking for MB's around the 140XXX mark to verify short or long reinforcement straps across the chassis rails.
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Bill Rountree
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Spring hanger support gusset

Post by Bill Rountree » Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:03 pm

Ian , The frame of MB 198354, has the 1/2 moon cut out on the rear face of the spring hanger support gusset. Bill

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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.

Post by ee.nanan » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:55 pm

Is the early frame have short Reinforcement plate below same as the top? 1400mm or 55 1/8 in? Thanks in advance!

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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.

Post by parcours » Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:42 pm

Great Info...

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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.

Post by Tom Wolboldt » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:44 am

Is the early frame have short Reinforcement plate below same as the top? 1400mm or 55 1/8 in? Thanks in advance!
Yes.

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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.

Post by Ian Fawbert » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:38 pm

HI all,
Thought i would bubble this up. I edited the links so pictures should work too.

Please see another change to ID a date of inclusion. The addition of a FACTORY reinforcing plate to the rear spring hanger.
MB 429657
Image

Image

Image

This was a jeep seen at the MJCQ swapmeet in 2007. Id forgotten about it until sorting some pics. I believe it was ex French army and/or a european 'return' (!) vehicle.

Cheers,
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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.

Post by Ian Fawbert » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:41 pm

I thought there might be some more people out there who can provide information for the MB's in the ranges in question:

LOOKING FOR:

*MB'S BETWEEN MB 119955 and MB 127470 for info on what sort of SHOCK ABSORBER MOUNT your chassis has- See pictures on page 3 for the differences.

*MB's BEFORE MB 198354 for the change to the rear spring hanger support (1/2 moon cut out or not)- See pictures on page 3 for the differences.

*MB's AROUND the 140XXX mark to verify short or long reinforcement straps across the chassis rails- See Page 1 for pictures/info.

*MB's without the Bond Strap studs on the front chassis cross member.

Thanks,
Ian.
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MB: 131175
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GPW: 225290.
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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.

Post by bazza46 » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:05 am

Two MB's without the bond strap stud on front crossmember ; 309591 and 2916XX.
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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.

Post by Gary C V » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:22 pm

MB 165271 has half moon cut out and bond strap studs.

Cheers Gary

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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.

Post by htc » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:28 am

Ian Fawbert wrote:
Please see another change to ID a date of inclusion. The addition of a FACTORY reinforcing plate to the rear spring hanger.
MB 429657
....
This was a jeep seen at the MJCQ swapmeet in 2007. Id forgotten about it until sorting some pics. I believe it was ex French army and/or a european 'return' (!) vehicle.
Hello Ian,

Very interesting threat on the MB chassis identification. Thank you for doing this.

I have three jeeps that all did go through La Maltournée (French army rebuild) at some moment in time. One is a pure Hotchkiss (1962). The other two are jeep salads. One of both has been in La Maltournée in 1955 so no Hotchkiss components in that one (I have a restoration threat MB379881 Story). The other one lost it's MB identification tag and has several Hotchkiss parts (e;g. the tub is Hotchkiss). The chassis is MB however. It lost its MB identity but it has the reinforcement.
Anyway, as you can imagine I have been doing a lot of research on differences between MB and Hotchkiss. During this research I did find out that at a certain moment in time (apparantly 1946) most La Maltournée refurbished salad jeeps did get the reinforcing plate installed as part of the refurbishing.
It is thus a la Maltournée thing which was also standard on the Hotchkiss. if I remember well the French did install this reinforcement to have jeeps that better withstand a drop from certain altitude (with parachute?)

So, I do not think it is a factory thing and it should not count as a way of dating an MB chassis. Of course I can be wrong ...

Greetings
Hans
Last edited by htc on Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Living in Belgium
MB 379881
GPW 253827

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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.

Post by gearhead » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:58 am

Ian is trying do demonstrate the "late" GPW and MB frames had this reinforcement from the factory.

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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.

Post by htc » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:31 am

htc wrote:
So, I do not think it is a factory thing and it should not count as a way of dating an MB chassis. Of course I can be wrong ...
I was wrong!

Just in order to make sure that people who find this threat are not mislead by my statement above I would like to add a post admitting that
Indeed I was wrong. I was very wrong.

I refer to the following threat for the whole story including pictures: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=258034&start=45

The gusset is factory installed starting MB chassis 382141 (NOV 1944).
The gusset can be used to date an MB frame if the gussets are installed using rivets.

If they are installed using bolts then it is a modification done on an older chassis (before MB 382141)
There is a document (TB-9-803-FE7 dd Feb, 14 1945) in Lloyd White VOL 3 describing a modification that can be done in the field in order to reinforce the rear spring brackets. In this case the gussets are installed using bolts.

Sorry for the confusion.

Greetings
Hans
Living in Belgium
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GPW 253827

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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.

Post by Ian Fawbert » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:21 am

Bump.

Thought this might get some newer info from newer members.

Still trying up narrow down the change date/serial in top rail reinforcing strap.

Ian.
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Re: Early/Late MB Frame Differences- and Production Changes.

Post by horrocks » Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:12 am

Ian, I chanced upon this thread today, and have just taken the tub off of MB 127415.

It has short rail, the later type 'curled' rear shock tower, and the straight rear gusset without the moon-shaped cutout.

I think some years ago we estimated the DOD as 13th March 1942, but maybe someone can get me closer than that.
Toby

Willys MB 3/13/42 127415
Willys MB 1/9/45 404620


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