How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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David H. Morganthall
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Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb

Post by David H. Morganthall » Wed May 12, 2010 6:02 am

Raplh, If your paint stays put, it will be amazing since we used the same paint. The process I am using now is similar to Carter's so no problems with it.

I agree Derek, the guys get too hung up over wear when most times it is not the cause of poor performance.
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Chuck Lutz
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Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed May 12, 2010 6:29 am

I'm going to make an attempt to RESTORE to original condition a few 539S Carters this summer also....I will be getting mine finished in an iron phosphate or a manganese phosphate finish like the factory finish was on them. I think the REBUILT finish that the Carter paint and any that resembles it will be find for a REBUILT (as opposed to a RESTORED or original finish) Carter looks nice.

There is a difference....and paint is not the finish from the factory, at least not for a GPW or an MB. As long as we understand what we are doing her guys, I think the option for putting together a Carter 539S can go either direction.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb

Post by leepotter » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:14 am

What would you say this is? Its lacking a pat number. 407 base.

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Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb

Post by Ralph » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:39 am

Those missing numbers are interesting.... the raised line is where it should be,though;the other pictures show 539S features.How about a few more pictures?All sides of the bowl,air horn,throttle arm linkage,top view of bowl cover,etc.
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Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb

Post by leepotter » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:45 am

I'll have to clean it up a bit as it is caked. Might be a day or so I gotta get some go-go juice for my garage heater.
44 MB - 352520 - USN 133442 MZ-1 Radio Jeep
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Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb

Post by Ralph » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:06 pm

Image Look for a pointed area on the bowl at the pump jet plug nearest the camera like the above pic.You can see the correct bowl cover markings here as well as the early throttle rod/clip configuation.I had just tried the (new)clip and spring for this picture before I rebuilt the carb.
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Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb

Post by leepotter » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:26 pm

Dear God its friggin cold out there.

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44 MB - 352520 - USN 133442 MZ-1 Radio Jeep
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Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:14 pm

It appears to be a Carter 539S.....
1) No "Circle C" on the Air Horn (I can't see one on the FRONT of it)
2) Rounded feature on the Bowl Cover
3) "407" Flange Body (and Bubba did not tap it for a vacuum port next to the big copper plug!!!)
3a) Correct Throttle Linkage
4) Bowl....now, I would not lose a wink of sleep over the missing patent on the raised bar....
5) Linkage....proper down to the spring/cup keeper
6) Choke linkage bracket....proper slotted type
7) Carter "Circle C" on other linkages...can't be seen but it all appears to be OK

She looks to be a complete 539S to me, even if the missing patent number on the bowl are an issue and some of the markings appear to be missing from the Bowl Cover as well.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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WWII 539S Carter Carb bowl patent numbers???

Post by Bill M » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:33 pm

I know others have asked this question but I have not seen it answered, how has it been established that only 8 patents are valid for the 539S?
1858614 May 1932
1858615 May 1932
1881996 Oct 1932
1894354 Jan 1933
1915930 June 1933
1944531 Jan 1934
1961747 June 1934
1967708 July 1934
2048535 July 1936
2099106 Nov 1937
2115077 Apr 1938
2252958 Aug 1941 (Refiled patent from Aug 1936)
These are patent dates from a 12 patent bowl. I have no axe to grind as my GPW has an 8 patent bowl! But the question begs to be asked.
cheers
Bill.
Last edited by Bill M on Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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David H. Morganthall
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Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb

Post by David H. Morganthall » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:57 pm

The blank spot is on about half my early bowls so I would not worry about it.
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Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb

Post by leepotter » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:00 pm

What are these going for? I've already got a carb i'm in the middle of rebuilding.
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Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb

Post by Ralph » Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:11 pm

Looks like there is at least a couple of brass plugs still aboard.....as far as price,pretty wide area there...as yours is-insides unknown,throttle base/shaft condition unknown,a few small parts are missing(which are pretty easy to find) but still a little tough to find a true 539S core...you certainly have one there.
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Re: WWII 539S Carter Carb bowl patent numbers???

Post by Bill M » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:04 pm

[quote="Bill M"]I know others have asked this question but I have not seen it answered, how has it been established that only 8 patents are valid for the 539S?
1858614 May 1932
1858615 May 1932
1881996 Oct 1932
1894354 Jan 1933
1915930 June 1933
1944531 Jan 1934
1961747 June 1934
1967708 July 1934
2048535 July 1936
2099106 Nov 1937
2115077 Apr 1938
2252958 Aug 1941 (Refiled patent from Aug 1936)
These are patent dates from a 12 patent bowl. I have no axe to grind as my GPW has an 8 patent bowl! But the question begs to be asked.
cheers
Bill.

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The patent dates are from Google patents.
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Chuck Lutz
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Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:35 pm

Bill....I have no data to refer to, but in looking at those three patents, they are owned by Carter or assigned, whatever that means....while they were applied for earlier and one was granted as late as Aug, 1941....the other two were granted in 1937 and 1938.

I am not able to read each patent and then look at a 539, a 698 or a 636 series and tell you if the patented items are included in any of them and if Carter did include them in all 539s put on jeeps or not. Furthermore, maybe the patented items ARE included in all of those carbs but the casting for the numbers did not include it for some time.

It's kind of a chicken/egg question, but so far the known specs for the three named above carbs have shown to be associated with bowls that have 8 or 12 patents on them. Why? I have no idea, but unless there is something that says why this happened, we are at a loss here accept to have these differences to use to identify the various parts we find on these carburetors.

I have noticed this....none of the Carter Bulletins shows the BOWL in the parts list as something you can order. Hmmmmm.....
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb

Post by Bill M » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:43 pm

Hello Chuck,
yes I have also noticed the bowl is not listed by part number in the manuals and diagrams I have seen.
I would be very interested in ACF Carter records if they still exist as would many others from other marques no doubt.
The patent data had the name of the person the patent was issued to as well as some drawings.
The latest patent while issued late 41 had its beginnings in 1936.
cheers
Bill.
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GPW-178721 Under restoration.


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