How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb
- Chuck Lutz
- Gee Addict
- Posts: 26829
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
- Location: Jeep Heaven
Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb
Some appear to be improvements of patents Carter held already. I don't know if there are any Carter records around though...
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
-
- G-Brigadier General
- Posts: 2099
- Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:25 pm
- Location: Nevada
Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb
Okay Guys,
I am again cleaning more of my 100+ pile of carburetors to glean more information about the minute details that we all find so dear!
My current dilemma is about the variations on the 8 patent bowls. I have found 8 numbers with the one being raised that has the 0-475 in the groove, next the 0-475 on the rear face with 8 patents. Then I found the same 8 patents with 0-614 in the groove. The I found 0-614 on the rear. Last I have some with the 0-614 on the rear along with cirlced C and some that also have the cirlced C with an R next to it.
Your comments and data from Carter books would be very much appreciated.
I am again cleaning more of my 100+ pile of carburetors to glean more information about the minute details that we all find so dear!
My current dilemma is about the variations on the 8 patent bowls. I have found 8 numbers with the one being raised that has the 0-475 in the groove, next the 0-475 on the rear face with 8 patents. Then I found the same 8 patents with 0-614 in the groove. The I found 0-614 on the rear. Last I have some with the 0-614 on the rear along with cirlced C and some that also have the cirlced C with an R next to it.
Your comments and data from Carter books would be very much appreciated.
Restoring June '42 Script GPW Phone 443-865-4800 / Email davidmorganthall@gmail.com
-
- MechTech
- Posts: 3961
- Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2002 12:07 am
- Location: The Workshop
Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb
David, there is no part number listed for the bowl assy in any of the Carter literature I have, that is a wartime Carter catalogue and a 1946 service catalogue.
It is not listed as a separate part. The other problem with the manuals is they were never intended to be used at that level of detail making them useful for vague assumptions only. A grey area where many want black and white answers where there isn't any.I would be using the 7 and 8 patent bowls as a bench mark
as this is a known at the present. The additional 4 patents on the 12 patent bowl all fall before September 1941 and some resumed patents from the late 1930's
cheers
Bill
It is not listed as a separate part. The other problem with the manuals is they were never intended to be used at that level of detail making them useful for vague assumptions only. A grey area where many want black and white answers where there isn't any.I would be using the 7 and 8 patent bowls as a bench mark
as this is a known at the present. The additional 4 patents on the 12 patent bowl all fall before September 1941 and some resumed patents from the late 1930's
cheers
Bill
Member of G503 since 1999
GPW-178721 Under restoration.
GPW-178721 Under restoration.
-
- G-Brigadier General
- Posts: 2099
- Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:25 pm
- Location: Nevada
Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb
Bill, thanks for the input.I am hoping that some NOS carbs are out there to compare the numbers. From the "chart" Pons & others devlopd it would seem some of what I fond cannot exist or is not correct, so I am looking to get more data to add to the mix.
Restoring June '42 Script GPW Phone 443-865-4800 / Email davidmorganthall@gmail.com
-
- MechTech
- Posts: 3961
- Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2002 12:07 am
- Location: The Workshop
Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb
David, there was a NOS carb opened from the tin by one of our UK friends that showed a 539S in all it's glory. 8 patent bowl from my recollections and in the thread on the throttle valve base finish.
I didn't think Claude Pons meant his spreadsheet to be the final word on the Carter, just an excellent base line.
Bill.
I didn't think Claude Pons meant his spreadsheet to be the final word on the Carter, just an excellent base line.
Bill.
Member of G503 since 1999
GPW-178721 Under restoration.
GPW-178721 Under restoration.
-
- G-Brigadier General
- Posts: 2099
- Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:25 pm
- Location: Nevada
Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb
I look at it as being a living document that we can all add to and correct s time passes. I am tryng to get more info to allow the chart to be more accurate, not take away from the work already done. Some of my own comments are now part of the chart but w/o credit being given; credit is not the issue either, just knowing which parts are correct as far as we can confirm.
Restoring June '42 Script GPW Phone 443-865-4800 / Email davidmorganthall@gmail.com
- cbodin
- G-Sergeant Major
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:49 am
- Location: Redwood City, CA
Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb
Long time no post, thanks to the info already available out there. I was trying to ID my carb, and I have it almost completed, but puzzled by a few things I would need help with. Just as a reminder, my jeep is an 04-45 MB with mainly original parts, and when not looks like come from a late CJ3A.
Flange: nice 19 in front, 407 on gasket face, no marking on tube, no addt'l screw holes, looks like a 539S, except the screw on the right which maybe bubba trying to find a vaccuum?
Bowl: bump on back, no mark under bump, ridge on side of the bowl, pointed screw plug with brighter alloy, 539s, except no patents # and no marking between bowl and idle casting, and one raised vertical seam. I heard about the elusive no patents bowl, an the French Zenith bowl. I am pretty sure my jeep never left California.
Bowl cover Assy: circled C, rounded hump
Air Horn: C on front....seems unanimously recognozed as a non 539S indication
All the rest (Lever Assy, Arm Assy, throttlelate markings, air horn bracket, choke plate) can be identified as 539S, or some others, except... what I found here...can it be a Zeith indication or somethng else...
Thoughts appreciated. Let me know other parts you need a pic from....the wife is calling for the turkey !
Flange: nice 19 in front, 407 on gasket face, no marking on tube, no addt'l screw holes, looks like a 539S, except the screw on the right which maybe bubba trying to find a vaccuum?
Bowl: bump on back, no mark under bump, ridge on side of the bowl, pointed screw plug with brighter alloy, 539s, except no patents # and no marking between bowl and idle casting, and one raised vertical seam. I heard about the elusive no patents bowl, an the French Zenith bowl. I am pretty sure my jeep never left California.
Bowl cover Assy: circled C, rounded hump
Air Horn: C on front....seems unanimously recognozed as a non 539S indication
All the rest (Lever Assy, Arm Assy, throttlelate markings, air horn bracket, choke plate) can be identified as 539S, or some others, except... what I found here...can it be a Zeith indication or somethng else...
Thoughts appreciated. Let me know other parts you need a pic from....the wife is calling for the turkey !
MB 45 436152
- Chuck Lutz
- Gee Addict
- Posts: 26829
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
- Location: Jeep Heaven
Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb
Pretty sure the Flange Body is an original Carter....the "407" nails it...but it has been modified for a vacuum outlet.
The bowl really seems to be a Zenith from the description. Does yours also have the slight indentation on the BOTTOM of the bowl that this Zenith has: The linkage produced in France by Zenith has another clue....the "Z" superimposed over the "C" is their logo so that is another hint.
Basically the French Zenith is a 698S licensed copy of the Carter 698S. A postwar carb...but the Flange Body is a modified 539S from what I can see. My guess it was overhauled at some point and the vacuum tap added.
For these 539S, 698S and 636 series Carters....most of it is "parts is parts" when it comes to rebuilding them and they can be mixed up.
The bowl really seems to be a Zenith from the description. Does yours also have the slight indentation on the BOTTOM of the bowl that this Zenith has: The linkage produced in France by Zenith has another clue....the "Z" superimposed over the "C" is their logo so that is another hint.
Basically the French Zenith is a 698S licensed copy of the Carter 698S. A postwar carb...but the Flange Body is a modified 539S from what I can see. My guess it was overhauled at some point and the vacuum tap added.
For these 539S, 698S and 636 series Carters....most of it is "parts is parts" when it comes to rebuilding them and they can be mixed up.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
- cbodin
- G-Sergeant Major
- Posts: 155
- Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:49 am
- Location: Redwood City, CA
Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb
Thanks Chuck, yes I have the indent so looks like a Zenith for the Bowl. Given the circled C on the hair horn, is it safe to assume this is a carter 698S part (Zenith would have put their ZC there?), and given the circled c on the bowl cover assy is it safe to assume this is a 539S part?
MB 45 436152
- Chuck Lutz
- Gee Addict
- Posts: 26829
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
- Location: Jeep Heaven
Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb
Flange Body = 539S
Bowl = Zenith
Bowl Cover = 539S
Air Horn = circle C is not 539S...blank would be
You have the hardest of those to find but it does have that vacuum tap drilled into it which would have not been a "factory" feature....motorpool, yes.
Bowl = Zenith
Bowl Cover = 539S
Air Horn = circle C is not 539S...blank would be
You have the hardest of those to find but it does have that vacuum tap drilled into it which would have not been a "factory" feature....motorpool, yes.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
-
- G-Major General
- Posts: 2860
- Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:32 pm
- Location: Arcadia & Johannesburg Ca.
Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb
As far as drilling the throttle shaft out and bushing it, could someone supply a new shaft that is smaller in diameter and then use bushings that would press right into the existing hole in the casting and eliminate all the need for a machine shop to do it right?
Dino Falabrino
On the "G" since 1998.
1943 GPW 102310 DOD 3-3-43
1928 Model A Roadster Pickup
1930 Model A Tudor
1968 Taco Minibike
On the "G" since 1998.
1943 GPW 102310 DOD 3-3-43
1928 Model A Roadster Pickup
1930 Model A Tudor
1968 Taco Minibike
- Chuck Lutz
- Gee Addict
- Posts: 26829
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
- Location: Jeep Heaven
Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb
The holes that the throttle shaft ride in on the flange body do not wear EVENLY so getting bushings to fit into egg-shaped holes would not be the way to go. Drilling out the flange body evenly through both holes at the same time will give you two ROUND holes to insert the bushings into that can be reamed to the correct I.D. for your throttle shaft.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
-
- Sergeant Major of the Gee
- Posts: 292
- Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:35 pm
- Location:
Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb
Greetings Gentlemen:
I picked up a couple of carbs this weekend. Both have brass tags. One is labeled 596S and the other a 636S.
The 596S has a bunch of parts that look 539S.
8 patent bowl.
No numbers on bowl cover & copyright "C" under Carter.
"475" between bowl and and idle jet port.
539 Style choke arm rod and retainer.
No "C" on air horn.
458 marked body flange (throttle body)
Looks like a 539S with a later 596S body flange/throttle and tag or Carter was just using up WW2 inventory.
Regards, Patrick
I picked up a couple of carbs this weekend. Both have brass tags. One is labeled 596S and the other a 636S.
The 596S has a bunch of parts that look 539S.
8 patent bowl.
No numbers on bowl cover & copyright "C" under Carter.
"475" between bowl and and idle jet port.
539 Style choke arm rod and retainer.
No "C" on air horn.
458 marked body flange (throttle body)
Looks like a 539S with a later 596S body flange/throttle and tag or Carter was just using up WW2 inventory.
Regards, Patrick
Patrick
1943 Willys MB
1969 M274A2 Mule
Peoples Republic of New Jersey
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/PortrayalPress
1943 Willys MB
1969 M274A2 Mule
Peoples Republic of New Jersey
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/PortrayalPress
- David
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1968
- Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 5:43 am
- Location: The Netherlands
Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb
Anyone have an idea what model Carter a flange stamped '427' is for? It came with an original Carter 539 body and a later circled 'C' model airhorn. It is similar but not 100% identical to a 407 flange (as can be seen on the first picture).
-
- G-Colonel
- Posts: 1931
- Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:06 pm
- Location: San Mateo, Ca
Re: How To ID A WWII 539S Carter Carb
Carter models 567S,572S. Source-TM 9-1826A/TO 19-75CCA-6