rear axle question

[iron duck]

Hi Torfinn,

Please e-mail me and I gladly give you all details.
It is easy to make if someone in your circles has a lathe.

Kind regards, Luc

coesens.luc@telenet.be

[JIMN]

The differential is pretty easy to get back in also. Before I would go through the trouble of making a stretcher (I made one about 20 years ago) just try and slip it back in. it is not very difficult even while still in the jeep. Just angle both bearing races in to get it started, then, if it doesn't slip totally in, take a dead blow hammer or rubber mallet and tap firmly on the bearing races to get it in-place. Ideally, it should not slip in too easily, but should take a little hammering.

Good luck.

[artificer]

How easy it is to get back in when still in the vehicle depends on whether the adjustment/preload shims are external (i.e. fit between the outer race and differential carrier/axle housing) or fit between the the inner cone and the differential/crownwheel case/carrier. I have seen both systems used in WW2 Jeeps.

[iron duck]

Hi Jimn, that's how it is explained in some manuals. It works if there is not to much load.

Regards, Luc

[brad m.]

Can anyone tell me what parts I should replace while I have the rear end apart ? I don't want to do it twice, so anything that should be done will be done .

Thanks
Brad

[artificer]

All oil seals, hub nut locking tabbed washers, inspect and replace in same position all good hub bearings and cones. With differential crown wheel out clean out pinion area and if there appears no binding with free turning and no end float in and out, seal in good shape relube and that's all.
Clean and inspect carrier bearings carefully (in place...don't remove from carrier) and refit with same cones...most times they are fine. Don't mix caps and reinstall the same way...mark when taking off.
Google to learn what to look for on tapered bearing inspection.
Cheap job just time and care.

[iron duck]

The weak spot is the diff carrier.
Inspect for cracks and play around the gear shaft.
If there is excessive play, replace it.
If the play is minimal, it can be used for parades and light work.
If there is a crack it needs to get replaced.
Inspect the tension from the ring gear bolts, if they sit loose, take it appart and inspect.
If the bolts and holes are damaged, replace.
If they are just loose without damage, clean and reinstall with a good thread locking product. Use the product between ring gear and diff carrier as well.
Inspect the bearings for pitting.
Inspect the ring gear and pinion for pitting.
I have seen the bearing tabs from the diff carrier damaged when the bearings were removed, this is not common.

Most what artificer said is OK.

Succes, Luc

[lt.luke]

Luc, is NONE of what you mentioned REPAIRABLE?

[JIMN]

Hmmm. I have never seen Dana axles with the shims outside of the bearings. I agree, that would make it difficult to get in without a spreader.


Brad,
You can do this simply if you want. But you need a friend, and if you find any other problems, you will want to stop and get some experienced help.

If everything has been working well in your jeep so far, I would keep it simple. I would just remove the cover off the diff. Then I would check a few things. Put the transfer case in neutral, or remove the driveshaft.
1) Grab the big ring gear and see if it is in there securely. It should not move left to right.
2) Grab the pinion yoke at the front of the axle. It should spin, but not wobble.
3) With your friend holding the pinion yoke, you can check the free play between the ring gear and pinion gear. you move the ring gear back and forth, and you should only be able to feel a little bit of movement between the gear teeth. (Actually like .006") not much, but you can feel it.
4) If all that seems OK, and you don't see anything cracked or broken, then you have just completed a quick simple inspection. Now you can work on replacing that seal.

Replacing the seal.....
1) Remove the axle shafts and the differential the way I mentioned earlier with a friends help.
2) Look to be sure there are no shims on the outside of the differential bearings. If there are none, then you will not need a spreader later.
3) Do a quick visual check of your bearings. If everything looks smooth and snug, then you do not need to replace them.
4) Remove your faulty seal. Knock it out with a broomstick handle that you cut the broom off of. Or something similar.
5) Install your new seal. You can do it the way others have mentioned, or if you are carefull, VERY careful, you can find a big socket or something that fits just right. Something that you can find that you can tap with a hammer that is round and will rest on the metal part of the seal, so that when you tap it with a hammer, it will go in straight. The long broomstick may help you drive it in straight from the other side. You can also talk to someone at a parts counter, and they will show you some cheap tools to install seals with.
6) Reinstall your differential. If there were no shims outside of the bearings, do it the way I mentioned before, or...... if there were shims outside, get somebody to help you locally, because you are either going to have to get a spreader or relocate the shims.

Bottom line.... If everything else is in good shape, you will not have any problems. But if you are uncomfortable, or can't really visualize what you are doing, then get some help. If you stumble across parts that you think need replaced, you may want help.

Defination of "help"......
I would find someone or a shop that works on off-road vehicles, Jeeps , rock crawlers etc. They work on lots of Dana Axles, and would enjoy your jeep.

Good luck.

[iron duck]

Hmmm. I have never seen Dana axles with the shims outside of the bearings. I agree, that would make it difficult to get in without a spreader.

I have seen them in a couple that were rebuild in the French army.
Other then these the shims are between the diff carrier and bearing.
Before I made the stretcher, I did it the way you mention. It works in most of the cases, especially if the previous rebuilder didn't had a stretcher either.
Sometimes they just fall out...

Hi Luke,
Parts like a diff carrier only get repaired if they are not available anymore.
Jeep axle parts are available at good prices.

Kind regards, Luc

[artificer]

Outside mtd shims are available NOS. Possibly depends on how many Jeep diffs have passed through ones hands.
And I will offer that it is easier and simpler for the less experienced (or experienced) to pull the seals into place rather than try with other improvisations.
Here's what to do...go to Home Depot or Lowes or similar and buy a fully threaded rod about 3' long x 3/8" (750mm long by 6mm) with three nuts to suit. buy a couple of washers that are the same as the seal OD and one which will just fit through the seal retaining bore. Put the rod through the axle shaft housing then at the inner end of this rod fit a nut about 1" in then the smaller washer, the seal with the lip toward the centre (or oil) and fit the larger washer and nut lightly tightening. On the other end which is protruding from the housing fit something like a piece of wood or steel with a 1/2" hole over the rod, then the other larger washer and the nut which you tighten until the seal is pulled fully home in its recess to which you have put a smear of sealant.
You are using the extremities of the axle tube as the leverage point so all pulls in nice and straight. Just be careful the thread does noy nick the seal when fitting up or pulling apart.

[JIMN]

The threaded rod is a good idea. I am usually too lazy to be creative, and just use the socket and hammer method. Or just a hammer.

[JAB]

... I ... usually ....just use the socket and hammer method. Or just a hammer.

I cut you some slack on the quote!

Not likely to succeed with that method in the diff housing as this particular seal doesn't like to go in straight, especially when first starting. I use a method similar to what John has posted (instead of washers I use a socket pulled by the rod) & often need to lightly tap the socket at the appropriate times & places to keep it square with the bore until it's nearly seated. I made an installation tool (a "pusher") based on the one pictured in the CJ manuals & it simply doesn't work as well as pulling it in, as John describes.

[iron duck]

I can see that pulling is working great.
However I have made a tool that fit on the seal and takes precisely the outer edge.
It has a tab where the rubber is on and keeps the seal on the tool and centered.
The back has a center hole where a shaft fits.
The shaft is long enough to allow someone to hammer on it while it sticks out the side from the axle housing.
It is easy and simple.
Might need a bit more attention to keep the seal straight and centered.

Kind regards, Luc

[Carsten]

...Here's what to do...go to Home Depot or Lowes or similar and buy a fully threaded rod about 3' long x 3/8" (750mm long by 6mm) with three nuts to suit. buy a couple of washers that are the same as the seal OD and one which will just fit through the seal retaining bore. Put the rod through the axle shaft housing then at the inner end of this rod fit a nut about 1" in then the smaller washer, the seal with the lip toward the centre (or oil) and fit the larger washer and nut lightly tightening. On the other end which is protruding from the housing fit something like a piece of wood or steel with a 1/2" hole over the rod, then the other larger washer and the nut which you tighten until the seal is pulled fully home in its recess to which you have put a smear of sealant.
You are using the extremities of the axle tube as the leverage point so all pulls in nice and straight. Just be careful the thread does noy nick the seal when fitting up or pulling apart.

Works great!
Next problem is, that one of the oil seals installed, "popped out" after a few minutes! I reinstalled it, and again, after a few minutes it slowly slipped out again! I am sure it was fully seated! Once again, i installed it, and this time i let the hole assembly with the threaded rod sit in place, letting it stay there until the sealant i used dries up! I'll be checking it tonight!
The seals used, are modern quality seals, made out of some sort of plastic (without the outer metal ring)! If it pops out again, i'll be really pi.... off!
Maybe i should loctite it into place?