Renovate clutch plate

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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Wocha
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Renovate clutch plate

Post by Wocha » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:03 am

Hi. I have been given a clutch plate rebuild kit containing the springs, fingers, rivets etc. I don't have access to machine shop type tools so is it possible to rebuild the clutch using everyday tools? If so can I have some pointers please? Thanks
1942 Ford GPW 56624
20144670
Location: Murcia, Spain.

Wolfman
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Re: Renovate clutch plate

Post by Wolfman » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:25 am

Clutch cover or clutch disc ?
From your description, maybe both.
The big thing with the cover is holding the cover down to compress the springs while you remove the fingers. Then you have to be able to keep the cover under control while you release the pressure, so the cover can be lifted off, exposing the springs. I do this in an old screw type press. Otherwise, it is just a matter of disassemble and reassemble.
The disc. That is another story. Takes rivet tools or a rivet machine to remove the rivets that hold the lining to the disc. Setting the rivets correctly, on reassembly is critical.
Replacing the center springs, in a sprung center clutch disc is also not a bolt together operation. The rivets that hold the center hub together are solid rivets. Also getting them set correctly, on reassembly, requires special tools and need to be done correctly.
Not to say you can not do it but it is more than unbolt and bolt back together and you need more than a hammer.
Buying a rebuilt clutch set is a good option.
Mike Wolford
CJ-2A
VEP GPW
Comm./Inst. SEL
AOPA ( 43 yrs)
EAA ( 43 yrs)
4th Inf. Div. - 2nd Armor Div. - CIB

Wocha
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Re: Renovate clutch plate

Post by Wocha » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:42 am

Sorry. To clarify.... I mean the clutch pressure plate NOT the disk.
1942 Ford GPW 56624
20144670
Location: Murcia, Spain.

Chuck Lutz
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Re: Renovate clutch plate

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:40 am

x2 on wolfman's last line in his response.
If you aren't familiar with the pressure plate overhaul procedure, you might be removing/adjusting it more than once.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
GPW 108552 4/17/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278 (DOD est./Tom W.)
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Wolfman
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Re: Renovate clutch plate

Post by Wolfman » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:54 am

Just the cover. Got it.
Holding the cover and keeping the spring pressure on the fingers under control, on disassembly and reassembly, is important. If you just drive the pin out of the finger, on disassembly, you will get a face full of flying parts. :shock: Be Careful !!
On reassembly, main points to check, other than you have it assembled correctly.
Be sure the finger anti-rattle springs are properly installed. If not, they can fly out on start up.
Once the pressure plate is installed on the flywheel, you need to check and adjust the finger height. Three of them. One on each finger.
Mike Wolford
CJ-2A
VEP GPW
Comm./Inst. SEL
AOPA ( 43 yrs)
EAA ( 43 yrs)
4th Inf. Div. - 2nd Armor Div. - CIB


Wocha
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Re: Renovate clutch plate

Post by Wocha » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:49 am

Thanks Wolfman. As the clutch fingers are badly worn on the existing clutch and I already have the rebuild kit i think i will give it a go as i can always get a replacement. As a matter of interest what do the anti rattle springs do. I can see on the drawings something on the end of the fingers but my clutch does not have them. They are in the rebuild kit though.
1942 Ford GPW 56624
20144670
Location: Murcia, Spain.

bantamj
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Re: Renovate clutch plate

Post by bantamj » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:51 am

There are 2 types of return springs...anti rattle springs is a nik name.
These springs are taking the pressure plate along with the fingers when depressing the clutch pedal and are actually "retun springs".
The reason why they are called "anti rattle springs" is that when they are not installed, the pressure plate makes noise in the clutch bracket.
Clutch assembly's are taking wear on 3 spots :
1) The clutch fingers where they touch the TO bearing, it is good to put some grease on the TO face.
2) The pressure plate face, The face takes wear from the friction with the clutch disk.
3) The clutch bracket, The clutch bracket has 3 square holes where the 3 square tabs from the pressure plate fit.
These holes and tabs take all the load from the engine when the clutch engages.
They wear out and when they are, the clutch becomes noisy, that's the rattling noise you hear when depressing the clutch pedal when changing gear.
The more wear the more noise.
The return springs are able to reduce that noise, to a certain point of wear.
When they are not installed, the noise is very apearant, so that's where the name "anti rattle springs" comes from.
My pic's show the return spring types used on more modern clutch assembly's.
Original (Auburn) clutch assembly's have another type of springs.
They have a wire type spring that does about the same thing.

Best Regards,
BJ
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Wolfman
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Re: Renovate clutch plate

Post by Wolfman » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:13 am

Great photos, BJ.
One of these days , I am going to have to learn how to post them. After I buy something to take them with and down load them from in the first place.
The heavy coil spring does the work. The flat ( anti rattle spring ) keeps the finger from rattling when there is no pressure on it.
Mike Wolford
CJ-2A
VEP GPW
Comm./Inst. SEL
AOPA ( 43 yrs)
EAA ( 43 yrs)
4th Inf. Div. - 2nd Armor Div. - CIB

bantamj
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Re: Renovate clutch plate

Post by bantamj » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:41 am

Hi Mike, When I was younger I could memorise everything tored down in the shop.
Now I take pictures to memorise everything I do and allow me to look how it was before tear down.
When you said "keeping the fingers from rattling" I scratched my head as probably I misunderstood.
The centrifugal forces are what keeps the fingers from rattling in my book.

Regards,
Luc

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Re: Renovate clutch plate

Post by Wolfman » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:37 am

I would say we are both right, BJ.
Ever hear a clutch make a rattling noise from the bellhousing when the engine is idling, only for the noise to disappear at higher speeds ??
The anti rattle spring(s) are most likely weak or missing.
At idle, the finger(s) rattle but when the engine speed was increased, centrifugal force holds them tightly in place.
Can't think of any other purpose for the flat "anti rattle " spring.
Maybe the clutch manufacture had a relative that made flat springs ! :lol:
High tech memory. Actually, I do the same thing ! 8)
Mike Wolford
CJ-2A
VEP GPW
Comm./Inst. SEL
AOPA ( 43 yrs)
EAA ( 43 yrs)
4th Inf. Div. - 2nd Armor Div. - CIB

bantamj
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Re: Renovate clutch plate

Post by bantamj » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:04 pm

Wolfman wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:37 am

Maybe the clutch manufacture had a relative that made flat springs ! :lol:
That's a good one Mike :lol:

Enjoy the day,
Luc

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Re: Renovate clutch plate

Post by Wolfman » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:02 am

Maybe I should be nice to the manufactures relatives.
The flat spring is needed.
On the clutch cover in your picture, the main springs (3) pushes up against the finger, which in turn, makes the outer end of the fingers push down on the adjusting bolts and plate and puts pressure on the clutch disc. It is engaged.
When the clutch pedal is depressed, The throwout bearing pushes the fingers and main springs down in the center, which lifts the outer end of the fingers up and takes the pressure off the adjusting bolts and plates. It is released.
When this happens, pressure is taken off the clutch disc. The flat springs hold the adjusting screw tight against the finger and insure the plate is lifted away from the disc for a clean release. With out the flat spring, on release, the plate would just be flopping around loose. It might rattle. Maybe even drag a little.
For proper clutch release the flat springs are necessary. Not a Borg & Beck cover assembly.
Sorry Mr. and/or Mrs. relative.
Mike Wolford
CJ-2A
VEP GPW
Comm./Inst. SEL
AOPA ( 43 yrs)
EAA ( 43 yrs)
4th Inf. Div. - 2nd Armor Div. - CIB

bantamj
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Re: Renovate clutch plate

Post by bantamj » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:21 pm

Wolfman wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:02 am
Maybe I should be nice to the manufactures relatives.
The flat spring is needed.
On the clutch cover in your picture, the main springs (3) pushes up against the finger, which in turn, makes the outer end of the fingers push down on the adjusting bolts and plate and puts pressure on the clutch disc. It is engaged.
When the clutch pedal is depressed, The throwout bearing pushes the fingers and main springs down in the center, which lifts the outer end of the fingers up and takes the pressure off the adjusting bolts and plates. It is released.
When this happens, pressure is taken off the clutch disc. The flat springs hold the adjusting screw tight against the finger and insure the plate is lifted away from the disc for a clean release. With out the flat spring, on release, the plate would just be flopping around loose. It might rattle. Maybe even drag a little.
For proper clutch release the flat springs are necessary. Not a Borg & Beck cover assembly.
Sorry Mr. and/or Mrs. relative.
Mike, That is the way it works! 8)
Now we are both right :D

Have a great day,
Luc

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