3/4" free pedal travel?

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Re: 3/4" free pedal travel?

Post by Ben Dover » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:30 am

It also helps if the Pedal Shaft Retainer on the frame for the clutch and brake pedal shaft is not worn out. There is lost motion when the components of the clutch linkage is worn out.
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Re: 3/4" free pedal travel?

Post by fernando mendes » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:07 am

Is not necessary unhook my clutch pedal spring to verify if I have or not free play?
Jeep Willys MB DoD dec,16 1942 s/n:196275
Dodge B3-B 4x2 1952 s/n:90099559
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Re: 3/4" free pedal travel?

Post by artificer » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:46 am

No. You can see or feel the movement before the throwout contacts the pressure plate fingers or diaphragm spring.
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TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: 3/4" free pedal travel?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:49 am

No....you can check it two ways. With the engine running and the transmission in neutral and the wheels safely blocked to avoid it rolling anywhere:
1) simply look down into the bellhousing while you lightly depress the clutch pedal; you should see/hear/feel nothing until the T/O makes contact with the fingers on the pressure plate.
2) using your hand only, lightly depress the clutch pedal with your HAND until you feel some serious resistance...that is where the T/O will be hitting the fingers on the pressure plate.

However, Joel brings up a good point....if the clutch pedal bracket and the tube itself are worn down a lot, there is some slop right there that can mask as free play so be sure that is not an issue....you can remove the linkage from the clutch pedal tube and see if there is movement and the tube is loose in the bracket if you suspect this is an issue.
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Re: 3/4" free pedal travel?

Post by Bruce W » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:10 am

The only thing we know so far is that we are not dealing with a stock MB/GPW clutch. Th OP has said so, twice, I believe. In order to properly diagnose this, we need to know WHAT we are dealing with. Artificer has mentioned a Chevrolet bellhousing and a diaphragm pressure plate, but I couldn't find where OP said either.
The basic idea behind the operation of Chevrolet's (if that's what we have) clutch linkage is the same as the Willys set-up, but the geometry is sure to be much different. If arm angles, length of stroke, etc. are not correct, there's sure to be trouble.
We also do not know WHEN the noise mentioned by the OP occurs. Immediately on T/O brg engagement, at full pedal travel, or somewhere in between? Or even, if the noise is the reason for wanting to adjust the free-play.
IMO, we need more information in order to help, but I will mention this - If the clutch linkage geometry is not right, or the wrong throwout bearing is used, a GM diaphragm can be pushed in so far as to cause the diaphragm "fingers" to contact the damper springs in the disc. This makes a noise, and can make shifting difficult.
So, what DO we have here? BW
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Re: 3/4" free pedal travel?

Post by fernando mendes » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:28 am

artificer wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:46 am
No. You can see or feel the movement before the throwout contacts the pressure plate fingers or diaphragm spring.
Ok.Thanks
Jeep Willys MB DoD dec,16 1942 s/n:196275
Dodge B3-B 4x2 1952 s/n:90099559
CCKW 353 Banjo 1944 s/n:309623

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Re: 3/4" free pedal travel?

Post by fernando mendes » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:57 am

Chuck Lutz wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:49 am
No....you can check it two ways. With the engine running and the transmission in neutral and the wheels safely blocked to avoid it rolling anywhere:
1) simply look down into the bellhousing while you lightly depress the clutch pedal; you should see/hear/feel nothing until the T/O makes contact with the fingers on the pressure plate.
2) using your hand only, lightly depress the clutch pedal with your HAND until you feel some serious resistance...that is where the T/O will be hitting the fingers on the pressure plate.

However, Joel brings up a good point....if the clutch pedal bracket and the tube itself are worn down a lot, there is some slop right there that can mask as free play so be sure that is not an issue....you can remove the linkage from the clutch pedal tube and see if there is movement and the tube is loose in the bracket if you suspect this is an issue.
Yes,I used my hands and the pedal still is very heavy since the beginning.Today I will try to loosen the control lever cable.
Jeep Willys MB DoD dec,16 1942 s/n:196275
Dodge B3-B 4x2 1952 s/n:90099559
CCKW 353 Banjo 1944 s/n:309623

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Re: 3/4" free pedal travel?

Post by artificer » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:17 pm

artificer wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:25 pm
I always recommend checking throw out bearing position relative to the pressure plate fingers through the bell housing window.
The clearance between these parts should be about a hacksaw blade thickness or 0.025" & the bearing shouldn't start to turn when the engine is revved.
Much more accurate than pedal movement especially when accumulated mechanical wear has taken place with linkages & clevis/pivots. It also eliminates the possible 'pad' issue.
Seems we are going round in circles stating the same stuff different ways.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: 3/4" free pedal travel?

Post by fernando mendes » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:28 pm

Bruce W wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:10 am
The only thing we know so far is that we are not dealing with a stock MB/GPW clutch. Th OP has said so, twice, I believe. In order to properly diagnose this, we need to know WHAT we are dealing with. Artificer has mentioned a Chevrolet bellhousing and a diaphragm pressure plate, but I couldn't find where OP said either.
The basic idea behind the operation of Chevrolet's (if that's what we have) clutch linkage is the same as the Willys set-up, but the geometry is sure to be much different. If arm angles, length of stroke, etc. are not correct, there's sure to be trouble.
We also do not know WHEN the noise mentioned by the OP occurs. Immediately on T/O brg engagement, at full pedal travel, or somewhere in between? Or even, if the noise is the reason for wanting to adjust the free-play.
IMO, we need more information in order to help, but I will mention this - If the clutch linkage geometry is not right, or the wrong throwout bearing is used, a GM diaphragm can be pushed in so far as to cause the diaphragm "fingers" to contact the damper springs in the disc. This makes a noise, and can make shifting difficult.
So, what DO we have here? BW
I run with this clutch since 1983.My transmission is a T-84.This noise(when I withdraw the foot slowly) appeared after I recoveried all my engine.I can send pics of my clutch to you.
Jeep Willys MB DoD dec,16 1942 s/n:196275
Dodge B3-B 4x2 1952 s/n:90099559
CCKW 353 Banjo 1944 s/n:309623

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Re: 3/4" free pedal travel?

Post by fernando mendes » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:24 pm

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Jeep Willys MB DoD dec,16 1942 s/n:196275
Dodge B3-B 4x2 1952 s/n:90099559
CCKW 353 Banjo 1944 s/n:309623

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Re: 3/4" free pedal travel?

Post by fernando mendes » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:29 pm

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Jeep Willys MB DoD dec,16 1942 s/n:196275
Dodge B3-B 4x2 1952 s/n:90099559
CCKW 353 Banjo 1944 s/n:309623

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Re: 3/4" free pedal travel?

Post by artificer » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:32 pm

Providing all info, as are those asking questions like Bruce, important.

If the clutch worked well before engine work something in refitting the engine has caused the current issue, if refitting the same parts.

Is the clutch cross shaft fitted right way round? The ears are different lengths!

A diaphragm clutch (as shown) does not work too well with a JEEP standard throwout bearing.

BTW I convert to this better type clutch assy.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: 3/4" free pedal travel?

Post by fernando mendes » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:59 am

artificer wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:32 pm
Providing all info, as are those asking questions like Bruce, important.

If the clutch worked well before engine work something in refitting the engine has caused the current issue, if refitting the same parts.

Is the clutch cross shaft fitted right way round? The ears are different lengths!

A diaphragm clutch (as shown) does not work too well with a JEEP standard throwout bearing.

BTW I convert to this better type clutch assy.
The engine refitting was all ok.It was better than the prior.The last thing I did different of the prior was weld the rivet of the center in the chain cover assembly(was leaking oil).Initially I was thinking the noise could be the camshaft thrust plunger turning in this rivet now welded.But the noise is only when I am withdrawing the foot of the pedal.I always ran with this clutch since 1983 and nothing problem,shifting very good and without noise.We thought too can be the alternator pulley.It is with a small not lined up position.Or alternator bearings?
Jeep Willys MB DoD dec,16 1942 s/n:196275
Dodge B3-B 4x2 1952 s/n:90099559
CCKW 353 Banjo 1944 s/n:309623

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Re: 3/4" free pedal travel?

Post by fernando mendes » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:53 pm

We finally changed today the T/O and the noise stopped.Changed too the front bearing retainer oil seal-was many oil leaky. :D
Jeep Willys MB DoD dec,16 1942 s/n:196275
Dodge B3-B 4x2 1952 s/n:90099559
CCKW 353 Banjo 1944 s/n:309623

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