Side Mount gas cans, a USMC policy?

[Tom Wolboldt]

Hello list

On the back cover of Army Motors (MVPA) number 53 is a pic of MC jeep 46047 and on the right step is an offset spout and X patten can with a diamond stencil. The pic. is dated 11-12-42. Also there are 4 other cans -3 look to have curled ear screw on lids.

Tom

[Glen]

The USMC used 3 piece American gas cans with the German/British type/size cam lever cap on them. If you have pictures of jeeps in the Pacific theater with the 2 piece German/British style gas cans, they will be British cans. Remember, the British had interests in the Pacific at the beginning of the war. Many of the American and British supplies/equipment would have been intermixed.

[lucakiki]

I also have several pictures of USMC IH M-2-4's on Iwo and they seem to have two piece German style cans on them. I'm doing a Rocket truck that had four of these on it in the pics and hoped to find some of those with good dates on them. The only ones I've come across so far are 50's dated.

I've also seen several photos in the ETO of Allied fuel dumps with those two pieces cans as far as the eye can see. Why don't any turn up with WWII dates on them? SteveG

I am reviving this up after Mark reminded me of it.Steve,all the cans I have seen have no dates,and only some had other inscriptions stamped in.But no U.S.A..no date,ever,only a J,a 4 or a 5 depending the kind of gallon they were refering to,and a letter for the contents.The ones I have seen with the original paint on,had a yellowish tan colour.Absolutely the same as the "no marking whatsoever "ones.

[lucakiki]

Again, I am bubbling this up just to show how at that time we were totally lacking of information on the mistery cans.
Tom makes reference tothe 11-12-42 dated picture on Army Motors.
I have often enquired about the earliest appearence of a " mistery can" in a WWII picture, but never got an answer..
So, digging through very old posts was worth the effort.
Does anyone know of an even earlier picture with a " mistery can" ?

[Chuck Lutz]

US Marines = Saipan = 1944 = American Prototype can......

[Mark Tombleson]

Here is the photo of the jeep on Saipan.



The can he is shaving with is a screw top with a white stencil "WATER" on it.

To the left of the Marine stooping behind the radio jeep is a center mounted cam lock with the water stencil on it.

The can at the rear of the jeep is the offset cam lock... gasoline maybe?

The can on the passengers side on the step is the same as the rear can, with a ridge in the middle of the can.

Both these Marines have carbines and you can see he pulled his shovel off the jeep and used it to dig.

This on on Guam has a large cam lock water can.

[Chuck Lutz]

A careful look at the details of the HANDLE cutout on the American Prototype (squared) on the REAR of the jeep in the Saipan photo compared to the handle on the German can (rounded cutout) below.....

SANDRIK SS Top Details.jpg (223.98 KiB) Viewed 762 times

then on the British, the USMC/CONCO and the American Prototype....

American vs British Design Differences.jpg (104.96 KiB) Viewed 825 times

You can see the cutout for the handle in the Saipan photo is NOT like the German handle (not to mention that one is spotwelded on and the other is stick-welded by hand...!!) And then in the pic of all three....the British can handle cutout is shaped like the German one is and is not the squared appearance that the USMC/CONCO and the American Prototype is.

I can't comment on the European Mistery cans or the Letter/Number Code cans but in a comparison with the one on Saipan, the CONCO/USMC and the American Prototype....while all of these share the design and construction details....the British and German cans are different.

Thanks for posting that Mark...now if we had some dated "official" USMC photos from Hawaii or California from just BEFORE the Marines left for NZ and Australia showing these kinds of details on the cans....those who are of the opinion that the Aussies or Kiwis or Tommies made them and gave them to the Marines might have to reconsider that....

[Mark Tombleson]

This was a photo taken of the 24th Marines 4th Marine Division in June of 1944, Chuck.

The 4th division came straight from CA to Hawaii then to Kwajalein for their fist invasion. They went directly back to Maui, were resupplied from the states and yook on Saipan.

See here.

http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/HD/PDF_Files/ ... 412800.pdf

It is a stretch for me to agree that anything for the 4th Division came from anyware other than the States of Hawaii at this point.

[Chuck Lutz]

So to recap Mark's info to this point:
1) the Saipan photo shows an American Prototype Can and a Conco/USMC can and standard American style jerry can.
2) the 4th Mar Div arrived in Saipan from California via Maui

So a REASONABLE PERSON would see that the equipment found on Saipan in this photo was not acquired by the Marines in New Zealand or in Australia.

3) The equipment in the photo came from the USA.

Would this tend to confirm the American Prototypes were....from America?

IF anyone has any information to the contrary about the origin of these cans in the photo, please post it.

I think Mark has nailed this down...thank you for your research!

[Mark Tombleson]

There may be an issue with line of thinking.

Along with the 4th Division, the 2nd Division fought on Saipan. The Invasion landing on Saipan was a 4000 yard stretch of beach with with the northern edge of Charan-Kanoa as the line between the two Divisions. It is very possible supplies may have been intermixed at this point.

The 2nd Division spent a lot of time in New Zealand between Guadalcanal and Tarawa... they may have picked up this type of can there. After Tarawa the 2nd Division was pretty beat up and returned to the big island of Hawaii to regroup, get replacements, training and resupply for Saipan.

I just don't see the direct resupply of war material thru enemy waters from New Zealand or Australia to Hawaii. Does anyone have another opinion or documentation on this supply issue?

The odds of finding this type of can from a source in New Zealand after the Tarawa invasion and training and resupply in Hawaii are slim for the 2nd Division but more improbable for the 4th Division.

Oh, 2nd Marine Division in WWII.
http://www.ww2gyrene.org/spotlight_2ndmardiv_index.htm

[lucakiki]

Yes Mark, "that type of can " ( ) came there from the U.S.A.
I am aware of the difficulties in telling apart colors from old black & white pictures,.
However do you think that the two piece ( ) jerrycan on the back of the jeep has a base color different from the Forrest green that was apparently painted over, or the lighter color we see is dirt and mud covering almost all of a Forrest green jerrycan?

In other words, could that can originally have been painted in that yellowish tan that often surfaces on mystery cans?

[Chuck Lutz]

Still trying unsuccessfully to jam that "yellowish/sand color" can into this discussion?

1) I fully support the idea that there may very well be something linking the yellowish/sand color to the "Mistery Cans".
2) Before you go off again, please post some photos of the "yellowish/sand color" cans,m because I do not recall anyone posting a picture of a can with that paint job on it that has the DESIGN and MFGER characteristics of the "Mystery Cans/American Prototypes".....

[pgcf]

Mark,

There is a long thread in this section about the USMC "mystery can". Contract info is provided that these are actually "Expeditionary cans" ordered by the Navy and Marines in late '41 and early '42. They are simply copies of the early German Blitz cans that the British had captured in North Africa and found more useful than their 2 gallon square cans. Unlike the British, the Americans altered their design to suit manufacturing. The British just simply copied the design.

Due to the relatively small amount of motor transport the Marines had on an island, compared to the Army, the spout/cam lock made more sense. To put it in perspective the largest tank assault for the Marines in WW2 was on Iwo Jima and it involved about 100 Shermans, the combined effort of 3 Divisions!.

As a former Marine, I can tell you for a fact we are very utilitarian people and don't throw anything away. That is why you see pictures of Expeditionary cans late in the war.

Semper Fi,
Peter

[pgcf]

Mark,

One other point is that while it may not be a policy, there are very few places to store "extra" stuff on an MZ. In order for the radios to work the engine has to run so you need extra gas and you never know when resupply will happen; therfore, you make a place to put an extra can on the right step/fender. Back to my point about utilitarian.

I can tell you for a fact that the M416 trailers we had assigned to the MRC 109 radio jeeps in my Artillery Battery all had 2 Jerry Can brackets for the same reason I mentioned above.

Hope this helps.

Semper Fi,
Peter

[Mark Tombleson]

I can't tell the color of the cans Luca, but I think Peter here has a reasonable explanation.

As far as what was in the cans on the jeep I will agree again with Peter as thes jeeps sat with their engines running with a 45 minutes per hour duty cycle, at least that is what the manuals say.

The cans marked as water in white, be they of whatever type, were used for water. I have only seen the USMC camlocks and the screw tops marked as water in white. I don't even think I have seen the large cam lock water cans marked in white as water in a photo.