FT-317 Mount for BC-1000

[Derek Eddlestone]

In a recent post a reference was made to a modified FT-317 being used to hold a BC-1000 in a jeep.

Was this ever done?

What was the modification?

Who would have used it?

Derek.

[willy]

Derek,
It was made in 2007 nobody would have used it in 194*
This is a modification that could have or would have been used if some had thought off it.
And mayby some has but we will never find out.
Just enjoy it and wish Tom much luck in selling them.
Willy
p/s Tom you did not tell me how much shipping was or is to 94601

[Derek Eddlestone]

Hi Willy,

I appreciate that Tom Campbell has designed the FM-85 + FT-482 combo to hold the BC-1000 in a jeep today but the phrase

That looks very nice. And a much better approach to a mount for the Jeep than a modified FT-317.

in the same thread made me wonder if someone had modified the original FT-317 mount that was fitted to tanks in order to hold a BC-1000 in a jeep either now or during the war.

Derek.

[Radtech]

A modified FT 317 was used when the VRC3 was mounted in the M4 tank.

Dallas

[Radtech]

The only WWII photo I have ever seen of a BC 1000 mounted in a jeep had a wood L shaped frame with the BC 1000 strapped to it with cargo straps.

Dallas

[wa5cab]

I went into more detail in a PM but the short version is that the FT-317 was designed to attach to a vertical surface. There is no accessible vertical surface inside of a Jeep that is tall enough. So in order to mount an FT-317 in a Jeep, you would need to first build and install something similar to an FM-85 but taller. And then modify the FT-317 to take the BC-1000 (instructions for doing the latter are in TM 11-2748).

Outside of its use in the M4 Sherman to mount the BC-1000, the FT-317 was designed to mount a PE-97/117/120 in the M2A1 Halftracks.

Robert

[Derek Eddlestone]

A modified FT 317 was used when the VRC3 was mounted in the M4 tank.

Dallas

Dallas,

Thats more or less what Roberts Downs said but I'm trying to find out what modifications were carried out to the basic mount, specifically when (or if) it was used in a jeep.
TM11-637. Radio Set AN/VRC-3 simply lists 'FT-317' used to fit the AN/VRC-3 in the Medium tanks but it also says instructions in the TM11-2700 series manuals explain how it (AN/VRC-3) can be fitted in other vehicles.
I'm curious to know if it can (or should) be used to fit a BC-1000 in to a jeep.

Derek.

[wa5cab]

Derek,

I did a search a few months back through all of the TM 11-2700 series I have (which is most but not all of them) and the only other place where I found AN/VRC-3 installation instructions was in the M5 and M5A1 Stuart. Where a modified FT-250 was used.

And incidentally, none mentioned the PP-114.

The final Change to TM 11-2715 was Change 2. And neither it nor Change 1 mention AN/VRC-3. And the sorta informal Korean War vintage instructions for the M38 and M38A1 don't either.

[Radtech]

Every thing I have lists the VRC-3 as being only used in light and medium tanks for communication with supporting infantry units.The DOD handbook of military communications equipment(1957 and nearly 2000 pages)lists the PP-114/VRC3 as a component of the VRC 3.It seems to be the only one of the WWII units listed as specificly for tanks.

Dallas

[wa5cab]

Well, use in tanks agrees with what's in the radio installation manuals (or isn't). But my main point was that the PP-114 came out too late to make it into the WW-II installation manuals. Whether it showed up physically too late to make it into service in the ETO I don't know. The first manual on the PP-114 is date 02/45. So I'd have to guess that a few made it over there.

[Derek Eddlestone]

Thanks for all of your help guys. I've welded up all of the holes drilled in my jeep that have been used to hold radios and I was hovering between fitting the SCR-694 and taking up a lot of room in the back or trying to fit the BC-1000 which members of the public instantly recognise from the war films...............

Derek.

[Tom Campbell]

Derek, I apologize, my home computer is shot, so I havent' had a chance to put my two cents worth in on this. As Dallas and Robert have already said, the FT-317 was originally designed for power supplies in the Medium Tank M4, etc. It is a wall mounted unit, see photo below (I hope).

I have a set of 11 pages of "Restricted" "Instructions for Installation of Radio Set AN/VRC-3 in Medium Tank M4 Series" (22 March, 1945). This information came from Ron Germain of St. Clair, Michigan - who is (at least to me) the guru of BC-1000 radios. Ron sent me all this detailed information with the intention of reproducing the FT-317 mounts for the BC-1000 radios. Robert Downs, of Houston, was kind enough to loan me an original FT-317 to copy. I have made detailed autocad drawings of the FT-317, and even found an exact duplicate of the rubber shock mount. I --- COULD --- build FT-317 mounts, but I don't see the need.

The FT-317, as has been said, is a wall mounted unit, which attaches with a swinging swivel arm at the top, and an inverted angle at the bottom. The overall height of the FT-317 is far too tall to fit inside any vertical section of a jeep, and the inverted angle at the bottom does not lend itself to mounting on a floor.





As to the modifications of the FT-317, according to the "Instructions" it primarily consists of a wooden block (4" x 10" x 1") shown as a 2Z8807-76 in the "Instructions". I am lead to believe that the flat stock bracket around the FT-317 is changed out for a different (deeper) bracket (possibly as per drawing SC-D-7327). The FT-317 also required for any application a bracket as per drawing SC-D-7393 which provides the pivot point for the top of the FT-317 radio mount.

All of this, at least to my way of thinking, made the FT-317 virtually unusable in a jeep or smaller vehicle. It could possibly have been used on a WC size vehicle. Hence my "redesign" of the FT-482-A.

All of this finally gets around to answering your original question. The modifications to the FT-317 consist of a wooden block and a different flat steel strap. The other unasked question would be the modifications to the FT-250, for which I also have a drawing, thanks to Ron Germain. The FT-250 was physically cut in half and reduced to 12-1/8" wide from it's design width of 15-1/2". Then they welded a bolt bracket to the FT-250 and designed a flat strap to go over the top and hold the BC-1000 into the FT-250. It also had a pair of "legs" welded to the bottom, so the whole thing could then be turned upside down and mounted with the FT-250 "bottom side up".

Derek, I will copy the "Instructions" and post a copy to you.

Tom Campbell - Birmingham, AL

[Derek Eddlestone]

Tom,

Thanks for your post. I have never found any detailed pictures of the mount before so at least I now know what one looks like. I'll look forward to seeing a copy of the instructions.

Derek.

[Fred Coldwell]

Derek:

Attached FYI is a poor black & white photo of a BC-1000 installed in what appears to be a MB radio jeep of some type. Enjoy!

[Radtech]

I have a Signal Corps copy of this photo and the BC 1000 is just setting on the fender well.Somewhere I have a Signal Corps photo of a BC 1000 strapped to an L shape wood frame behing the driver.

Dallas