PE-104 Power Supply Question
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- G-Master Sergeant
- Posts: 109
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PE-104 Power Supply Question
Also need the number for the PE-104 (BC-654) vibrator and where I might get one of these.
Thanks, Mike
Thanks, Mike
1942 Scout Car W/ SCR-508
1943 GPW W/bc-1306
1943 Dodge WC-62 W/SCR-284
WC-6
1943 GPW W/bc-1306
1943 Dodge WC-62 W/SCR-284
WC-6
- GreyWulf
- Sergeant Major of the Gee
- Posts: 418
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:02 pm
- Location: Tennessee
Re: PE-104 Power Supply Question
Dear Mike,
Do you still have the original vibrator? If so, its best to repair it. I just dealt with the same issue of a non-working vib unit. Some old tube heads on another radio forum helped me out considerably and I was able to repair mine. All these 104 vibrators will probably not work even if they are NOS. They have a foam rubber insulation that off-gasses a corrosive film that fouls the internal points. Some of the guys here may know how to build a 'cleaner' that will burn the stuff off internally (They are also a great source of info as well), but you run the risk of damaging the unit. I elected to cut the can off the vibrator at the base. (this leaves you a little ring at the bottom, and you can solder it back together with a butane torch) After sliding it out of the can, I scraped the points with a clean xacto blade. this takes patience. The corrosion is stubborn. After that, I polished them with a polisher from GB electronics. Looks like a small nail file. Then comes the hard part. You will have to reset the points. Buy two 6 volt lantern batteries. Wired in parallel, they will actuate the vibrator (it wont run/buzz, but the stem/reed will move). You will need the wiring diagram in the manual. You will also need a multi-meter with continuity buzzer. By alternating the current flow thru the coil (do dad on top of unit in the can), you can see if the points are making good contact. You'll need the wiring diagram to know what leads to hook the batts to and what leads to hook the meter to. Once you understand how the thing works, its easy but very time consuming. After that, solder it back together, sand the solder down, and polish the unit alittle. You can barely see the cut line. Its in the 104 anyway. I hope this helps.
Another note on the 104. My vibrator works. (Lord that sounds wrong saying that). But, the 104 still has issues. It was not fully rectifying the AC voltage coming from the vibrator. Both Rob Downs and Dallas here on the G informed me that the small selenium rectifiers in the 104 decay after 70 years. Not turning AC to DC, you have issues of poor volume control, tube life, garbled audio. I am still working on a replacement design using diodes, but they have different specs than the old selenium units.
Do you still have the original vibrator? If so, its best to repair it. I just dealt with the same issue of a non-working vib unit. Some old tube heads on another radio forum helped me out considerably and I was able to repair mine. All these 104 vibrators will probably not work even if they are NOS. They have a foam rubber insulation that off-gasses a corrosive film that fouls the internal points. Some of the guys here may know how to build a 'cleaner' that will burn the stuff off internally (They are also a great source of info as well), but you run the risk of damaging the unit. I elected to cut the can off the vibrator at the base. (this leaves you a little ring at the bottom, and you can solder it back together with a butane torch) After sliding it out of the can, I scraped the points with a clean xacto blade. this takes patience. The corrosion is stubborn. After that, I polished them with a polisher from GB electronics. Looks like a small nail file. Then comes the hard part. You will have to reset the points. Buy two 6 volt lantern batteries. Wired in parallel, they will actuate the vibrator (it wont run/buzz, but the stem/reed will move). You will need the wiring diagram in the manual. You will also need a multi-meter with continuity buzzer. By alternating the current flow thru the coil (do dad on top of unit in the can), you can see if the points are making good contact. You'll need the wiring diagram to know what leads to hook the batts to and what leads to hook the meter to. Once you understand how the thing works, its easy but very time consuming. After that, solder it back together, sand the solder down, and polish the unit alittle. You can barely see the cut line. Its in the 104 anyway. I hope this helps.
Another note on the 104. My vibrator works. (Lord that sounds wrong saying that). But, the 104 still has issues. It was not fully rectifying the AC voltage coming from the vibrator. Both Rob Downs and Dallas here on the G informed me that the small selenium rectifiers in the 104 decay after 70 years. Not turning AC to DC, you have issues of poor volume control, tube life, garbled audio. I am still working on a replacement design using diodes, but they have different specs than the old selenium units.
1942 Slat Grill #111246
1943 GPW #135942
1943 PE-49F
1943 PE-75J
1943 PE-75K
1944 PE-75U
1943 PE-77D (x2)
1943 PE-77E
1944 PE-95G
SCR-177B, SCR-188A, SCR-274N, SCR-284A, SCR-300B,
SCR-506, SCR-508/528, SCR-509/510, SCR-593, TRC-2,
1946 GRC-9, BC-312/314/342/344s, BC-348R/P/Q,
BC-611C/D, BC-728, telephones and other comm gear
1943 GPW #135942
1943 PE-49F
1943 PE-75J
1943 PE-75K
1944 PE-75U
1943 PE-77D (x2)
1943 PE-77E
1944 PE-95G
SCR-177B, SCR-188A, SCR-274N, SCR-284A, SCR-300B,
SCR-506, SCR-508/528, SCR-509/510, SCR-593, TRC-2,
1946 GRC-9, BC-312/314/342/344s, BC-348R/P/Q,
BC-611C/D, BC-728, telephones and other comm gear
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- G-Corporal
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:34 pm
- Location:
Re: PE-104 Power Supply Question
Guys,
I've rebuilt a bunch of these vibrators with a solid state bullet proof solution. The hardest part is getting the VBN-1 module. I wrote an article for modifying the vibrator module for the DY-88 power supply. This is the same module as that used in the PE-104. PM me if you are interested. I can't attach either a PDF or a DOCX file, and attaching the article as a picture is kinda silly.
Keyslammer
I've rebuilt a bunch of these vibrators with a solid state bullet proof solution. The hardest part is getting the VBN-1 module. I wrote an article for modifying the vibrator module for the DY-88 power supply. This is the same module as that used in the PE-104. PM me if you are interested. I can't attach either a PDF or a DOCX file, and attaching the article as a picture is kinda silly.
Keyslammer
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- G-Major General
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- Location: denver co.
Re: PE-104 Power Supply Question
I can up load it to radio nerds
BB
BB
keeping it strac here boss
I hate aquaphobic horses
I hate aquaphobic horses
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- G-Corporal
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Re: PE-104 Power Supply Question
Sent the attachment to you!
Keyslammer
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- G-Lieutenant General
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Re: PE-104 Power Supply Question
The vibrator is Radiart RS3 which was special made for the PE-104 and are extremely rare.There is no other vibrator that I have ever found with the same pin out.
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- G-Major General
- Posts: 2597
- Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:14 am
- Location: denver co.
Re: PE-104 Power Supply Question
keeping it strac here boss
I hate aquaphobic horses
I hate aquaphobic horses
- wa5cab
- CWO4 (Ordnance) USNR
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Re: PE-104 Power Supply Question
CORRECTION:
Radiart VS-3
Mallory 550-C
SigC 3H6690
SigC 2ZA876
SigC 3H6906
The latter two in the later SIG 5's just say "Replaced by 3H6690". So are unlikely to be found. The last one was probably someone's typo that got used on one order. None of them that I have or have seen ever have the SIG Stock Number on them. And none of the boxes that they come in will have the commercial numbers.
And none that I have ever seen will run right out of the box. They all have to be run through the contact cleaner circuit (120 VAC line and light bulbs) first.
Radiart VS-3
Mallory 550-C
SigC 3H6690
SigC 2ZA876
SigC 3H6906
The latter two in the later SIG 5's just say "Replaced by 3H6690". So are unlikely to be found. The last one was probably someone's typo that got used on one order. None of them that I have or have seen ever have the SIG Stock Number on them. And none of the boxes that they come in will have the commercial numbers.
And none that I have ever seen will run right out of the box. They all have to be run through the contact cleaner circuit (120 VAC line and light bulbs) first.
Gunner
USN Retired
MVPA 9480
USN Retired
MVPA 9480
- creinemann
- G-Command Sergeant Major
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Re: PE-104 Power Supply Question
Following this thread, wondering if a company like this who makes them for antique radios
http://www.vintagecarradio.com/accessor ... st-models/
could make up replacements if we had enough interest?
http://www.vintagecarradio.com/accessor ... st-models/
could make up replacements if we had enough interest?
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- G-Corporal
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Re: PE-104 Power Supply Question
When I get the chance, I will take a look at the circuit for the vibrator as used in the PE-104. The VBN module can be adapted to the pinout. I have used a variety of solid state solutions...but the VBN module makes most other solutions pale in comparison. I have used this module many times in my restoration of Military radios (WWII and Korean era). Here is an excerpt and webpage link:
Full protection against reverse battery, shorted outputs and over power, the VBx-1 is nearly indestructible. Because of this ruggedness, the VBx-1 can be hard wired into the circuit like any other robust component such as resistors and capacitors. It can also be wired to an original style vibrator base for plug-ability, or even placed inside the can of an original vibrator! With this flexibility, hard to find 5, 6 and 7 pin vibrators are no longer an issue. Operating from 3.0 - 18V (12-38V for VBF-1), only one board is required for all positive ground installations and one for all negative ground installations.
http://tech-retro.com/Aurora_Design/Accessories.html
The only challenge is GETTING the module. The manufacturer only sells these through brick and mortar radio restoration businesses. I've tried to work with them on availability or direct ordering...no go. I purchase my modules from a radio restoration biz near where I live. Prices vary...but you can expect to spend more time and money going this route...but it is bullet proof.
Once again...I will look at the PE-104 circuit and re-post here on the proper application of this module.
73
Keyslammer
- creinemann
- G-Command Sergeant Major
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Re: PE-104 Power Supply Question
Sent you a PMKeyslammer wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:24 amWhen I get the chance, I will take a look at the circuit for the vibrator as used in the PE-104. The VBN module can be adapted to the pinout. I have used a variety of solid state solutions..
- wa5cab
- CWO4 (Ordnance) USNR
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Re: PE-104 Power Supply Question
Well, anyone who wants to use the original, I have around 30 of them, some VS-3 and some 550C.
Gunner
USN Retired
MVPA 9480
USN Retired
MVPA 9480
- creinemann
- G-Command Sergeant Major
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Re: PE-104 Power Supply Question
I'd like two of those in case I screw up cleaning my "good" one, Ill send you a PM
- wa5cab
- CWO4 (Ordnance) USNR
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Re: PE-104 Power Supply Question
OK. Price tested is $15.00 each, plus postage.
Gunner
USN Retired
MVPA 9480
USN Retired
MVPA 9480
- creinemann
- G-Command Sergeant Major
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Re: PE-104 Power Supply Question
Ok sounds good I'll send you a private message.
Carl
Carl
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