Advice tying down aerial please

Radio Telephone and Telegraph Transmitting and Receiving Equipment
User avatar
willy
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 3502
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:42 pm
Location: Oakland,Ca.

tiedown

Post by willy » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:42 pm

Robert,
I have several boxes off the tiedown, Sorry (Rope assembly).
I went treu them and found several with a RP-5 brown rope and insulator
Would that help you
or are you scalding me again.????
Willy
Image
Or would you like a grey rope
Image
Willy
I have Military and Radio Surplus.
MVPA Life Member 683
1943 GPW 98356, 1964 M151, and trailers, plus many Radio's 916-761-5293
Seabee Navy 1982-1988
NRA life Member, KE6EMX
Sold M35A2, M38, M38A1, M880 M37B1 all restored by me


User avatar
wa5cab
CWO4 (Ordnance) USNR
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:22 am
Location: USA/TX/Houston
Contact:

Post by wa5cab » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:09 pm

Willy,

No scalding. Around this time of year or a little later, that's reserved for hogs. :-)

The brown ones are probably MFP treated and the gray are untreated. Actually, I could use two or three matched (either MFP or none-MFP) pairs of M-378 and M-379 (without -Gy or -Fr suffixes) halyards for the long wire antennas of my AN/TRC-2 and SCR-694-C. PM me a price if you have them.
Gunner
USN Retired
MVPA 9480

User avatar
David V
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1735
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:10 pm
Location: British guy living in France. Fontenay-sous-Bois, just east of Paris.

Post by David V » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:49 am

Time to come back to my original question - I put the Pclip on the M52 blue joint with a bleu clip. Obvious it goes there.
If I clip the insulator end there I can tie the aerial down easily to ONE point anyway on the front - either left or right but I always thought that the aerial was tied in TWO points and there is no way I can do that with WIlly's tie-down, there isn't enough rope.

So it would be correct to tie-down to just one point - like the BO lamp or hood latches and the aerial won't move around too much ?

David
44 MB 356111 "Charlotte" since 21/02/06 - Capstan winch
42WLA 70443 "Lily" since 16/1/10

User avatar
Chris Warne
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1458
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:54 am
Location: "B-26 Marauder Country" (Essex, UK)
Contact:

Post by Chris Warne » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:35 am

I think most pictures I've seen (WW2 era) show a single tiedown rope for antennas and this is confirmed, I believe, by Roberts (or Dereks?) scanned pages from a radio TM.
It's possible that you've seen other jeeps at events where the owner has used, probably incorrectly, 2 tiedowns for their antenna??
1945 Willys MB
1944 GMC CCKW353
Looking for:
1943-45 Chevy 1 1/2ton G7107 (no winch)
Sold my:
1944 Dodge WC51
1942 GMC CCKW 353 Closedcab
1943 Diamond T M3A1 Halftrack
1945 Willys MB

User avatar
wa5cab
CWO4 (Ordnance) USNR
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:22 am
Location: USA/TX/Houston
Contact:

Post by wa5cab » Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:26 am

David,

The radio or radio installation manuals that actually discuss how to tie down the antenna when the Mast Base is an MP-48 or MP-48-A all show a single leg tied down to one point. Plus those installation manuals where the installation parts list includes IN-86-(*) insulator, RP-5 Rope and the P-clip fitting list only one IN-86. A couple that call for two insulators refer to them as being for an auxiliary antenna (wire).

The only ones I've seen that show or call for in the text a two-leg harness are the ones on the SCR-299 and SCR-399. A few weeks ago someone posted here a photograph or two showing the antenna on the SCR-399 tied down with two legs. Both of those radio sets use the MP-47 and both normally use all five of the common mast sections (MS-53 through MS-49). In the case of the 5-section antennas, the manuals call for using an S-hook closed around the MS-51 instead of the fitting closed around the MS-52.
Gunner
USN Retired
MVPA 9480

User avatar
David V
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1735
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:10 pm
Location: British guy living in France. Fontenay-sous-Bois, just east of Paris.

Post by David V » Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:41 am

Well thanks guys - this is what I wanted to know - in all the meets I've had here in France so far, no-one has has the right tie-down and everyone has been tying from the two front hood latches up to the mast somewhere in the middle and down to the other side. This has been getting me confused as it couldn't work with Willy's tie-down but now I can see how it should be down.

Cheers again.

David
44 MB 356111 "Charlotte" since 21/02/06 - Capstan winch
42WLA 70443 "Lily" since 16/1/10

Derek Eddlestone
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 5316
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 9:30 am
Location: New Forest. England.

Post by Derek Eddlestone » Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:55 am

David V wrote:- in all the meets I've had here in France so far, no-one has has the right tie-down and everyone has been tying from the two front hood latches up to the mast somewhere in the middle and down to the other side.
David
David,

This is what you see in the UK as well and it stems from incorrect practices going back many years. New people come in to the hobby and assume that old hands are doing the right thing. You've questioned it and found the right way and now you can try convincing the the owners of jeeps with tie downs marked M378/9.GY/Fr that they should look again at what they've done.

Derek.

User avatar
Chris Warne
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1458
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:54 am
Location: "B-26 Marauder Country" (Essex, UK)
Contact:

Post by Chris Warne » Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:57 am

All you need now is the IN-86 and some RP-5 - you have the clip from Willy?

Good luck - It was only with considerable help from a fellow G member that I traced these items and had the last ones they had for sale.

Quick tip - if you find some RP-5, use some liquid whipping (or thinned Evo stick glue) to 'whip' the rope where you plan to cut it, else it unravels very quickly. Alternatively, you could whip the ends with thread!
1945 Willys MB
1944 GMC CCKW353
Looking for:
1943-45 Chevy 1 1/2ton G7107 (no winch)
Sold my:
1944 Dodge WC51
1942 GMC CCKW 353 Closedcab
1943 Diamond T M3A1 Halftrack
1945 Willys MB

User avatar
wa5cab
CWO4 (Ordnance) USNR
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:22 am
Location: USA/TX/Houston
Contact:

Post by wa5cab » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:17 am

I have IN-86-A in some quantity. $10 each. I may have found a source of current production rope equivalent to RP-5 but won't know until it arrives and I can actually look at and feel it.
Gunner
USN Retired
MVPA 9480

User avatar
mkoloc
LTC, U.S. Army
LTC, U.S. Army
Posts: 848
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 9:52 pm
Location: 1631 Bitter Creek Lane, Batavia OH 45103
Contact:

Post by mkoloc » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:20 pm

Have enjoyed reading this exchange ... if I might digress .. what would I use for a tiedown for my M16A2 MGMC Antenna ... I do not have the manual on digits for radio sets (My beast had an SRC 625 with the B606 Interphone) .. I have the original antenna (3-sections) base and the inerphone and am working on the radio .. but I would like to get an antenna tie down installed.. Can you assits?
LTC Mark Koloc USA (RET)
MVPA Member # 31144
1631 Bitter Creek Lane
Batavia, OH 45103
Cell: 1.715.821.9426
mkoloc44@yahoo.com

User avatar
wa5cab
CWO4 (Ordnance) USNR
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:22 am
Location: USA/TX/Houston
Contact:

Post by wa5cab » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:07 pm

LTC Koloc,

The Radio Installation manual for M13, M14, M16 and M17 MGMC is TM 11-2712. If one was done covering the M16A2, I don't have the number in the database. TM 11-2712 lists only the SCR-528 radio (BC-603, BC-604 and CH-264 sitting on FT-237 mount inside of CH-74-A chest) and doesn't list components for either a tie-down or an Interphone system (BC-606 is the Interphone Control Box).

Where is the CH-74 Chest installed in your M16A2? In the M16 it goes above and just behind the passenger seat, facing forward. Or if you do not have the CH-74, what mast base bracket is installed and where? That might give me a clue as to whether this TM applies to your HT or not.

But if you want a tiedown regardless, what you need is an IN-86 or IN-86-A insulater, about 15 feet of Rope RP-5, and a P-clip that goes around Mast Section MS-52 (it has no assigned nomenclature and so far I haven't managed to pin down the Signal Corps Stock Number). If the MP-48-A Mast Base is mounted forward on the vehicle (as on the M16), you would tie down the antenna to the rear. If it is mounted in either rear corner, then tie down forward. To make up the tiedown, cut 12"-18" of the RP-5 and tie it to the P-clip and to one end of the IN-86-(*). Tie the remainder of the RP-5 to the other end of the IN-86-(*) and to a convenient point (clip, bracket, footman loop, etc.) either forward or aft of the MP-48-A. Pull the antenna down to somewhere between 30 and 45 degrees above horizontal. Depending upon how close the RP-5 attachment point is to the MAst Base, the P-clip may rest at either the bottom or the top of the MS-52.

Robert
Gunner
USN Retired
MVPA 9480

User avatar
mkoloc
LTC, U.S. Army
LTC, U.S. Army
Posts: 848
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 9:52 pm
Location: 1631 Bitter Creek Lane, Batavia OH 45103
Contact:

Post by mkoloc » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:35 pm

Robert thank you for the info .. here is a link to my preservation site .. original stencil on the track states SCR 528 Radio W/B606 .. the rack was missing but I have the fabricated 1 done to correct specs coming next week .. your rightthe radio sits behind the passenger seat .. the interphone B606 mounted on the dash in this track and it is installed .. does anyone sell these tiedown componenets .. can get my hand on a modern 1 but not waht I am looking for

http://mkolocsM16A2HT.MyPicGallery.com
LTC Mark Koloc USA (RET)
MVPA Member # 31144
1631 Bitter Creek Lane
Batavia, OH 45103
Cell: 1.715.821.9426
mkoloc44@yahoo.com

User avatar
wa5cab
CWO4 (Ordnance) USNR
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:22 am
Location: USA/TX/Houston
Contact:

Post by wa5cab » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:10 pm

Mark,

Africa is a middlin' large place. Are you at liberty to say where on the continent you found it?

In the final photo I see a shadow that might be of the hole through the mast base bracket for the MP-48-A. Are you restoring to Korean War configuration (I noted the unit numbers photo of the front)? If you are, that changes the options slightly. Some MP-48-A's and some FT-237's were modified during that time frame for coaxial cable. And some FT-237's were modified to use the Korean War vintage shock mounts. I have two FT-237's with the latter mod, one of which also has the former. And was literally just about to swap the one with both mods to another list member for an unmodified one, as he was going to use it for bench maintenance where the vintage didn't matter. And I have a stack of modified MP-48-A's that I recently started restoring to WW-II configuration.

Reprint of TM 11-2712 on the M16 (not M16A2) is $10.00 plus shipping.

I have a lot of CH-74-A chests, most with Korean War dates. Several of us on here have tie-down components if you decided to install one. Also, from other sources, it appears that Korean War vintage RP-5 was green, not natural (white) or light tan (from MFP treatment). And several of us have other components you will need. Look back up this thread and at several other recent ones for the usual suspects.

There is a mounting plate and a mounting bracket you are going to need. I don't know of anyone with complete drawings. Partials are in TM 11-2712, as well as for some unknow reason a detail about the top of the bulkhead. But you may have to find someone with another M16 to get all of the dimensions. I think that there is a list member in Lille with an M16 but I don't know whether he has the plate and bracket. Perhaps he will chime in.
Gunner
USN Retired
MVPA 9480

User avatar
David V
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1735
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:10 pm
Location: British guy living in France. Fontenay-sous-Bois, just east of Paris.

Post by David V » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:20 am

Wow Mark - what a find ! Looks pretty complete too.

I want one for Xmas !

David
44 MB 356111 "Charlotte" since 21/02/06 - Capstan winch
42WLA 70443 "Lily" since 16/1/10

Derek Eddlestone
G-Lieutenant General
G-Lieutenant General
Posts: 5316
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 9:30 am
Location: New Forest. England.

Post by Derek Eddlestone » Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:25 am

wa5cab wrote:Mark,

Africa is a middlin' large place. Are you at liberty to say where on the continent you found it?
With a large part of Africa being under European Colonial rule after WW11, it could come from anywhere. Lots of good stuff came out of Africa years ago from countries under French and Portuguese control although I do know of a batch of Sherman tanks that came out of Uganda after Idi Amin got chucked out. I expect that there's still stuff in sheds that the governments have forgotten about.

Derek.


Post Reply

Return to “Radio's and Communications”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 51 guests