WWII FDC equipment

Question and opinion regarding Living History / Reenacting.
User avatar
lt.luke
G-General
G-General
Posts: 9899
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 7:56 am
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

WWII FDC equipment

Post by lt.luke » Fri May 05, 2017 12:38 pm

I'm having a hard time sorting out what would have been in the FDC for a field artillery battery during WWII. 75mm or 105mm preferred. I'm talking the small stuff. Graphic training aids, graphic firing tables, actual tables and radios etc. Can anyone help?


User avatar
Mr_Flibble
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:44 am
Location: The Lowlands
Contact:

Re: WWII FDC equipment

Post by Mr_Flibble » Mon May 08, 2017 1:41 am

From the photos Google throws up I see folding plotting tables and regular folding tables

Image
source: http://www.poeland.com/tanks/artillery/observer.html

Image
An FDC in Italy

Can't identify the Telephone switchboard, but I see chest-mic rigs and noise-reduction nose-mics.
I think I see a BC-1000 radio in there at the back.
Apart from that I see a regular map case, an M1941 tent stove and a VT Fuse ammunition box (Not sure they showed up with the US Army before the Ardennes Offensive)
Rick

1943 - Willys MB - #221863 1A-165SPC * PHOTO-3

User avatar
lt.luke
G-General
G-General
Posts: 9899
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 7:56 am
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Re: WWII FDC equipment

Post by lt.luke » Mon May 08, 2017 4:03 am

Thank you! I'm fairly sure the sketch drawing is 1950's. Main reason for this is having never seen a folding field table with a WWII date.

That Italy photo I've never seen. I see two folding plotting tables. I bet those plastic azimuth fans will be impossible to find! If anybody has one....

User avatar
Falldownjaeger
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 347
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:19 pm
Location: FL, USA

Re: WWII FDC equipment

Post by Falldownjaeger » Tue May 30, 2017 9:51 pm

All my FDC knowledge is from 80's and 90's, 4.2in, 81mm and 120mm mortars.

Folding Tables, to the best of my knowledge, the WWII folding tables have square legs not lathe turned legs like you see on contemporary field tables.
Image
Image
Image
Image

We had a wooden chest for FDC Equipment, wouldn't surprise me if it was same box going back to WWI or WWII like this one:
Image

M2 Compass

Tabular Firing Tables for each round type and nomenclature.
Charge Slide Rules for each round type and nomenclature
3-sided Scale measuring ruler.
Grid Protractor, for measuring down to 8-10 digit grids, 8 digit most common, 10 digit grid being a surveyed point. In the above pics, the L shaped tool is one type of Grid Protractor, we had 5x5in square aluminum ones with a grip knob by one corner and several different map scales printed on the inside and outside edges


We used a large wooden baseboard with layers of cardboard on top, covered with opaque white plastic sheeting with grid squares printed on it. the cardboard was so plotting pins would stick. like these but wearing Woodland BDUs :
Image

Deflection protractor (in my case RDP Range/Deflection Protractor http://www.ebay.com/itm/Protractor-Fan- ... SwuMZZIjGO
or GFF Graphical Firing Fan) for measuring the distance from the FP/MP to target and from OP to target for Polar Fire Missions. Also measures the angle from the FP/MP to target in relation to Direction of Fire, the lay of the guns per M2 Aiming Circle.

Coffee maker....every Mortarman or Artilleryman, esp FDC worth their salt always has coffee going.
1995 M1025A2 Orig 5SFG GMV ODA525 "Hammerhead"
1995 M1025A2 Orig 1st SFC GMV 5 Commanders In Extremis Force GMV
1984 Chenowth Interim Fast Attack Vehicle 061 'Horny Toad"

User avatar
Falldownjaeger
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 347
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:19 pm
Location: FL, USA

Re: WWII FDC equipment

Post by Falldownjaeger » Wed May 31, 2017 1:29 am

This appears to be the protractor in the WWII era FDC pics but pkg marked 1952:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Plastic-Clea ... 4857619556
Image

Wooden Map Scale,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scale-Plotting- ... 484d6180f1
Image
http://www.ebay.com/itm/I-Scale-Plottin ... 0535880945

date unknown but she has WWII dated leather covers for them separate:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-US-brown-l ... 1c3794051b

WWII British aluminum Mk1 Range Scale:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-CANADIAN-BR ... 41ab604bc1
1995 M1025A2 Orig 5SFG GMV ODA525 "Hammerhead"
1995 M1025A2 Orig 1st SFC GMV 5 Commanders In Extremis Force GMV
1984 Chenowth Interim Fast Attack Vehicle 061 'Horny Toad"

User avatar
Falldownjaeger
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 347
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:19 pm
Location: FL, USA

Re: WWII FDC equipment

Post by Falldownjaeger » Wed May 31, 2017 1:49 am

War Dept edition of FM 6-40, shows use of the above triangular protractor, I started looking thru it but couldn't find a description/dimensions for the period Artillery Firing Chart:
https://archive.org/stream/Fm6-401945#p ... 3/mode/2up
1995 M1025A2 Orig 5SFG GMV ODA525 "Hammerhead"
1995 M1025A2 Orig 1st SFC GMV 5 Commanders In Extremis Force GMV
1984 Chenowth Interim Fast Attack Vehicle 061 'Horny Toad"

User avatar
lt.luke
G-General
G-General
Posts: 9899
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 7:56 am
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Re: WWII FDC equipment

Post by lt.luke » Wed May 31, 2017 8:22 am

Thank you all. I have placed a sizable order with the lady and made an offer. Time will tell.

User avatar
Falldownjaeger
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 347
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:19 pm
Location: FL, USA

Re: WWII FDC equipment

Post by Falldownjaeger » Wed May 31, 2017 1:38 pm

To do it right, you need at least two of everything which you already know by your Branch. I could tell you a story about a USAR 4.2" Mtr Plt that live fired with just a PV2 FDC Chief who hadn't even been to AIT yet, with no check computer.
1995 M1025A2 Orig 5SFG GMV ODA525 "Hammerhead"
1995 M1025A2 Orig 1st SFC GMV 5 Commanders In Extremis Force GMV
1984 Chenowth Interim Fast Attack Vehicle 061 'Horny Toad"

User avatar
lt.luke
G-General
G-General
Posts: 9899
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 7:56 am
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Re: WWII FDC equipment

Post by lt.luke » Wed May 31, 2017 1:44 pm

Falldownjaeger wrote:To do it right, you need at least two of everything which you already know by your Branch. I could tell you a story about a USAR 4.2" Mtr Plt that live fired with just a PV2 FDC Chief who hadn't even been to AIT yet, with no check computer.
I am in the process of ordering 2 each of the items posted ablive. I have alone on two of the "X-leg" folding draft/charting tables.

I think I will have one Range Deflection Protractor, but I am convinced that is a post-WW2 piece of equipment and possibly significantly post war. I also think I have 1 plotting Square in aluminum with yards and meters scales, but again, that's a match to the RDP in vintage.

I have a war-dated 6-40.

I have no line on 75 or 105 graphical firing tables (sticks or slide rules), nor any period correct Tabular Firing Tables. I will also need the plotting chest, and may opt for only 1 of them vice 2.

User avatar
Falldownjaeger
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 347
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:19 pm
Location: FL, USA

Re: WWII FDC equipment

Post by Falldownjaeger » Wed May 31, 2017 4:39 pm

Here's WWII 105mm HE 1942 slide rules, $75 seems a bit high for what they are and limited collectability. Don't know what caliber Battery you are wanting to depict, Airborne Arty had both 75mm and 105mm pack howitzers, the rest of the Army, all sorts of towed, motorized, mechanized pieces from 75mm to 36in Mortar "Little David"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Military-Slid ... Sw8HBZLbem

FDC Box, We had one per 3 gun Section, both 4.2" and 120", your War Dept FM 6-40 would prob say whether they did Battery-level FDC or if TO&E had FDC at Section level. All documentation forms, the FO whiz wheels for calculating corrections, log books for each gun with round counts,

Oh yeah, grease pencils various colors, period pencil sharpeners, either hand-crank with the C Clamp attached or the little wooden blocks with razor blade; colored plotting pins (straight pins round head), EE-8 phones, clipboards with fire mission data sheets, rounds by type and fuse on hand,

I want to say the Firing Chart was 3ft x 4ft, and about an inch thick for the main, with two reinforcement 1" thick x 6" x 36" on the backside and mitred strips nailed on the four exposed edges, like nice cabinet work. I imagine you could go with something like that until otherwise proven to be different dims or you find an original chart.
The carry case was a stinky canvas with the thick grey felt padding you see in the M1950 Weapon Drop Case, metal zipper opening on 3 sides with two 1" web short straps and a triple bar slide on the 3 opening sides, a folded web carry handle, metal D-rings with a 2" wide webbing shoulder strap with a sliding pad like the M1935 Map/Messenger Case but wider. The frickin' carry case weighed more than the firing chart itself.
Airborne Arty, I don't know if they had an M16, M17 or M19 Plotting Board-like device in lieu of the full sized Firing Chart for use with the 105mm and 75mm pack howitzers with their short barrels, lower velocities and shorter range, Board, Plotting, M5? Here's a May 1942 Ordnance Maintenance of Plotting Boards for Field Artillery TM 9-1569:
https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc29984/

http://www.thegunner.net/ccp8/Item/plotting-board
http://sliderules.lovett.com/toprules/s ... language=0

A good FDC smells like stress sweat, burnt coffee and overheating radios.
1995 M1025A2 Orig 5SFG GMV ODA525 "Hammerhead"
1995 M1025A2 Orig 1st SFC GMV 5 Commanders In Extremis Force GMV
1984 Chenowth Interim Fast Attack Vehicle 061 'Horny Toad"

User avatar
lt.luke
G-General
G-General
Posts: 9899
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 7:56 am
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Re: WWII FDC equipment

Post by lt.luke » Wed May 31, 2017 5:24 pm

I paid $75 for a NOS set of 75 sticks at a show years ago. So while I might not buy these that you found, the condition is OK and the price isn't unfair.

I know the job and I love it. It is mostly skipped from discussions about FA b/c it isn't infantry sexy but better like the FO and it doesn't go Boom like the gun line. It's "that magic stuff in between that makes it all work."

My full, hot, coffee cup was a PCC when we rolled to the field!

User avatar
Falldownjaeger
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 347
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:19 pm
Location: FL, USA

Re: WWII FDC equipment

Post by Falldownjaeger » Wed May 31, 2017 5:42 pm

I miss it, just thinking about this equipment has been a blast! I would have been content doing FDC for 20yrs. Yeah, USAR unit out of West Philly, got to Indiantown Gap, drew ammo and mortar carriers from MATES, got assembled on the Firing Point only for somebody to just then figure out there were no IMLOC or even E5 & above FDC capable personnel at drill. My USAR recruiter was a Nam vet, originally 13 FDC, took me under his tutillage, taught me FDC before even went to Basic, I used to be able to do it with just a Map, protractor, scale, Texas Instrument TI-35 calculator and the Firing Table or the laminated Charge/Range cards that came in the 4.2 ammo crates. Anyhoooo, I got called off gunline to report to the PL's jeep. He asked me if I could do it. Granted I was 17, a bit cocky, but the job outside of a MortEP, ARTEP, etc or manually calculating MET, was challenging but not exactly black magic to those in the know. We had fired from that point several times, the safety fan was already on one of the Firing Charts. Marked Center-Sector, with E7s and O2s cringing, until the round was observed safe. Did some simple Grid missions, even tried a Polar but a green FO, trying to talk him thru it over the radio. Kept all rounds in the safety fan, nobody went to jail, but still, it shouldn't have been allowed to happen. People could have gone to jail that weekend, if I F-ed up.

WWII-era: I'd have my lil work station set up, AFC on the folding table with deflection protractor, whiz wheel, grid scale and M-2 compass layed out, M1950 pocket stove on a Fuse crate next to it, constant coffee going, an EE8 by each foot, flannel shirt with pen loops sewn into the left pocket to keep my grease pencils organized by color, stopwatch for TOT in my right shirt pocket, jeep cap on my head. Yelling to 2Gun to get on the F-ing phone.
1995 M1025A2 Orig 5SFG GMV ODA525 "Hammerhead"
1995 M1025A2 Orig 1st SFC GMV 5 Commanders In Extremis Force GMV
1984 Chenowth Interim Fast Attack Vehicle 061 'Horny Toad"

User avatar
lt.luke
G-General
G-General
Posts: 9899
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 7:56 am
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Re: WWII FDC equipment

Post by lt.luke » Wed May 31, 2017 6:57 pm

Ok, I've got three EE8's. Figure that's about right would there be a switch board or just phoned on wire going to 3 different places?

User avatar
Falldownjaeger
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 347
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:19 pm
Location: FL, USA

Re: WWII FDC equipment

Post by Falldownjaeger » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:27 am

switchboard so you don't have to keep telling 5 of the 6 guns the phonecall isn't for them all the time.
1995 M1025A2 Orig 5SFG GMV ODA525 "Hammerhead"
1995 M1025A2 Orig 1st SFC GMV 5 Commanders In Extremis Force GMV
1984 Chenowth Interim Fast Attack Vehicle 061 'Horny Toad"

User avatar
lt.luke
G-General
G-General
Posts: 9899
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 7:56 am
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Re: WWII FDC equipment

Post by lt.luke » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:39 am

Falldownjaeger wrote:switchboard so you don't have to keep telling 5 of the 6 guns the phonecall isn't for them all the time.
was talking to a guy today who said the same thing. now to find one... crap. I gotta make a list of what I need. lol


Post Reply

Return to “Living History / Reenacting Knowledge Base”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests