CMP M1911 Information Update

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wreckless
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CMP M1911 Information Update

Post by wreckless » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:17 pm

Status of the CMP 1911s, 1/29/2018:

The CMP has been authorized to receive 8,000 1911 type pistols from the United States Army.

The 1911s have been received by the CMP. A complete inventory will be conducted over the course of this week. The pistols will then be securely stored until the Army-approved 1911 building and armory infrastructure is completed. That completion is anticipated to be approximately 60 days from now. Once the 1911 armory is completed, inspection, grading, repair, and ultimately test firing of the pistols will begin. (Please be aware that the CMP was led to believe that we were ready to move forward, but three weeks ago facility requirements were changed, and we are now fulfilling those requirements.)

The CMP 1911 order packet will be posted 90 days prior to the order acceptance date and opening sales date. No orders will be accepted prior to that date. Please visit www.thecmp.org, click on the Sales icon then 1911 Information, for the latest. CMP customer service has been inundated with calls and emails concerning the 1911s and no further information is available at this time.

The CMP will keep everyone posted as we move through this process.


Mark Johnson
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Civilian Marksmanship Program
www.thecmp.org
Rob
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Re: CMP M1911 Information Update

Post by Hammerhead » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:47 pm

Great! Thanks for posting the info!
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Re: CMP M1911 Information Update

Post by W. Winget » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:47 am

So they are going to fix them up before moving them out as surplus...
Same dumb thing we did with M113's, brought them to 10-20 standards before we could turn them in for M2 Bradleys, then gave them to Foreign Govts this really cost us a heck of a lot of $$$ back in the early 80's as we transitioned to BFVs.

Recall one of the hyped up arguments for obtaining the 9mm...'it costs too much to bring the .45 up to spec' :lol: but they can sure do it to get rid of them :evil: .
Go figure.
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Re: CMP M1911 Information Update

Post by wreckless » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:11 am

I blame the lawyers.
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Re: CMP M1911 Information Update

Post by Kim Sievert » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:51 am

"So they are going to fix them up before moving them out as surplus...
Same dumb thing we did with M113's, brought them to 10-20 standards before we could turn them in for M2 Bradleys, then gave them to Foreign Govts this really cost us a heck of a lot of $$$ back in the early 80's as we transitioned to BFVs."
They are not upgrading them, they are just making them safe to fire.

http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/

""The federal law that established the new CMP authorizes the Corporation to sell surplus .30 and.22 caliber military rifles, parts and ammunition to qualified U.S. citizens "for marksmanship". Accordingly, the CMP sells government-surplus M1 Garands, .22 caliber target rifles and small quantities of other rifles to qualified purchasers. Net revenue from CMP sales is used to fund operations and programs and to supplement a permanent endowment""

Qualified means,,,,,, http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sale ... irements/
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Re: CMP M1911 Information Update

Post by W. Winget » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:14 pm

I cannot imagine of one Armorer that would have turned in a .45 that was 'unsafe' to fire when the order came down to turn them all in. If it was unserviceable to the point of being unsafe, they would have chopped or cut it up earlier instead of storing it in their armory. They would have been gigged for an inspection if they had weapons in the arms room that failed inspection, not to say weapons with parts on order may have been turned in, but I have a doubt that those the CMP were given were ever drug through a war and left to rot so bad that they needed to be returned to 'safe' condition (hard to think of what could be wrong other than a crack in metal somewhere or run over by a tank to make it unsafe at that)
I wish they were sold 'as is' by grade, (and they probably will down the line like the M1s) making it easier to get one, cheaper for them, and those that want to customize them (there will be that group) would have access to less than perfect examples to do their damage to history.

I'm not complaining about CMP, it just seems opposite of the excuse the Army used to get rid of them in the 1st place, that of being too costly to maintain them.
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Re: CMP M1911 Information Update

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:22 am

I'm not sold on the "too costly to maintain them" excuse per se for the change away from the M1911A1....and by the way, I would be VERY surprised to see many, if any M1911s in the CMP sale and if they were, they'd be going for more money depending on condition. I would expect them to be M1911A1s.

Prior arguments against that design included not only insufficient magazine capacity, but it not being supported by NATO armaments which were 9mm and not 45acp. In addition to all the stuff requested by the armed services to be mounted on pistols, it would require major modifications to each and everyone of them to use the same hardware that a new production pistol would have been produced with in the first place. That seems to be more in line with a "too costly to maintain" excuse as anything.

Bottom line to me would be heavily dependent on how many rounds each pistol could carry without reloading and the M1911 series pistols fall way short in that respect.

I hear the argument that one .45 will do enough damage to put an enemy down permanently vs. perhaps 2-3 of the 9mms, but then again, you have twice as many rounds in the pistol and that argument is also predicated on the idea that you hit the enemy with each round. The tradeoff is a more lethal round but less of them vs. perhaps a less-lethal round and twice as many of 'em.

As to them being checked out prior to sales, it would be an assumption to buy the idea that no armorer would have a "defective" pistol in his armory and therefore they need not be checked out is just that....an assumption. Unless a directive requiring and M1911 series pistol being returned to the armory in exchange for the Berettas be "checked out" can be produced, the condition of thousands of those pistols and the associated costs of them being checked out prior to storage and subsequent release to the CMP can not be verified.

I'm sure when the dust has settled and someone in the area can drop by the CMP to see how they are grading them, the condition of each grade and the price for them...that the decision to purchase one will be better known. If I remember correctly, they plan on releasing them over several years but it would be interesting for a person who wants one to know if they are saving the "best for last" or just grabbing 8,000 and doing the checkout, etc. and offering them for sale in each Grade.

Good Luck you guys, the original M1911 Colt is an iconic Browning design and a classic pistol!
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Re: CMP M1911 Information Update

Post by Bryan » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:12 pm

Someone floated me the rumor that the std. rack grade 1911A1 would be around $900, the nicer stuff would go on their auction Board
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Re: CMP M1911 Information Update

Post by wreckless » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:16 pm

That isn’t a rumor. The CMP said as much themselves already.
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Re: CMP M1911 Information Update

Post by Loganr » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:50 pm

Seems like cmp is a for profit company now you see nothing of them out here promoting shooting sports.
I have heard several stories of people selling grands with the story I ( my son) worked for them and cherry picked the best 10 rifles that's why we're selling them at this price.
Last edited by Loganr on Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CMP M1911 Information Update

Post by Radtech » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:20 pm

It sounds to me like they got a bunch of junk from the government and now have to set up a factory to re manufacture them.

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Re: CMP M1911 Information Update

Post by gpw6335 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:49 am

I have an idea that you will be able to buy a 1911 cheaper on Gun Broker when its all said and done, I miss the DMC when prices were good. Got some bargains back in the day. None to be had with CMP
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Re: CMP M1911 Information Update

Post by W. Winget » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:17 am

Chuck Lutz wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:22 am
Unless a directive requiring and M1911 series pistol being returned to the armory in exchange for the Berettas be "checked out" can be produced, the condition of thousands of those pistols and the associated costs of them being checked out prior to storage and subsequent release to the CMP can not be verified.
Ok, I'm not arguing about it, but what arms room kept broken weapons in the rack waiting for a decision of the Govt to switch to Berreta's? Most Company level Arms rooms would have a dozen or two of pistols (Officers & Crew Served Weapons) and a full time arms room nco to maintain them.
So the concept of a few thousand broken .45's waiting to be dumped back to the supply chain just does not fit in with any PS Mag or Army Reg, and I lived through that whole period. Now we did not know when we would get 9mm, so or weapons had to be ready to deploy with, not broken up until they were swapped out for .9mm (following training sessions, new racks issued, etc.) so I stand by the comment that no Arms Room had broken weapons laying around praying for turn in and draw of 9mm's, if it was rendered unserviceable it was pushed back to higher maint or parts on order. They simply were not worn out pieces of junk waiting in racks for turn in. It goes against every maintenance record the Army ever had to keep unservicable equipment at the user level and gets reported on readiness reports monthly. Depot level storage did not keep junk either, as they were in ready to issue order, not unservicable scrap, so yes, they were inspected when turned in for storage as well.

I'm glad they are being released instead of being cut up, it took a long hard fight by many great people to see this happen, I'm turely amazed that previous administrations did not succeed in destroying them all to save us from ourselves.
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Re: CMP M1911 Information Update

Post by Kim Sievert » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:42 pm

How do you know they are broken ??????????

The CMP will release serviceable (rebuilt / checked) pistols and will auction any special ones.
(Just like they do with turn in rifles and parts. Some of the turn in's were un-opened)

The armories that had these 1911's, will be happy to release them in any condition they are in just to get them off their books.
(They should all should be in RFI condition)

Some receivers will be scrap, just like some of the rifles receivers that got turned in from armories or those that came back from Greece were.

The CMP will take the serviceable parts from those scrapped frames pistols to sell or to use for rebuilding.

Last but not least,,,,,, nobody in their right mind is going to buy a 1911 or 1911a1, thinking its target shooting grade or worth the trouble to make it accurate.

They are buying history,,,,,,,.
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Re: CMP M1911 Information Update

Post by DodgeMan » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:27 am

[quote="W. Winget" post_id=1706398 time=1517764665 user_id=296]
Depot level storage did not keep junk either, as they were in ready to issue order, not unservicable scrap, so yes, they were inspected when turned in for storage as well.
[/quote]

Just an anecdote about Army depots and weapons handling - in May 1977 while I was in BCT myself and several other soldiers were tasked to drive to a depot warehouse at Ft. Knox to pick up a 5-ton truckload of M1911A1s and take them to an armory near the gold depository. I was the designated driver since I was the only one in my BCT company who had a driver's license prior to entering the Army. The .45s were stored at the depot in metal trash cans. Know what a metal trash can full of .45s weighs? About 700 pounds. It takes quite a bit of work to get a trash can full of .45s up on the back of a standard 5-ton Army truck if you don't have a forklift. By the time we were done we had an entire truck load of trash cans full to the rim with .45s. The accompanying armorer riding in the truck told us that even though serials were not being checked if we felt an inclination to appropriate one of the pistols we would be inviting ourselves to serve some time breaking rocks at Ft. Leavenworth. The armorer then got us lost on the way to the armory and we ended up on a main highway driving the truck off-post and then having to find a place to turn around and come back on-post with an entire truck-load of .45s. We finally got them to the armory and I backed the truck up to the door. We then manhandled all of the trash cans down and pulled them into the building, where we dumped them out on the floor, adding the contents to an ever-larger pile. By the time we were done we had a very large pile of .45s, about 2 feet deep and 15 feet across.

The armory also had huge piles of .50s cals and M16s on the floor.


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