Why is the BATFE stuck in the last century?

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raymond
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Why is the BATFE stuck in the last century?

Post by raymond » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:29 pm

Recently found a NOS, in the box, mid 70's, unfired, still in the wrapper, Colt M16A1. :mrgreen: Yeah, I know, it is made of almost pure unobtainium.

Now in process of buying. Have not dealt with BATFE on Class 3 weapons for over a decade. I got my passport photos, and fingerprint cards done today. Now Pike County is as rural and backward as you can get, but the local Sheriff's office deputy who did my cards says they do every other instance requiring fingerprints electronically. Whether for the state, FBI, ICE, etc. He said he can't believe that the BATFE still uses manually inked paper fingerprint cards. When doing my fingerprints, he really had to press hard to get enough ink as the pads were kind of dried out from lack of use.

This is the 21st century. All records are online.

The only reason the BATFE would not do so for this application is to deliberately slow walk applications for something they do not agree with.

I fully expect that if I called them on the phone, they would answer with "Good morning, BATFE, how may we thwart you?"

Raymond
"On the day when crime puts on the apparel of innocence, through a curious reversal peculiar to our age, it is innocence that is called on to justify itself." Albert Camus


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Re: Why is the BATFE stuck in the last century?

Post by David_4x4 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:16 pm

How does silencer shop submit finger prints? I know they produce them digitally, but didn’t know if they print them to a card at their main office and then submit or what.

Realistically, it should be a 30 minute transaction tops but that will never happen.

Me, I just roll my own for now.
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Re: Why is the BATFE stuck in the last century?

Post by dantheman » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:37 am

Last form 4 I did in August I went through my local silencer shop affiliated dealer. They have a kiosk that you do your fingerprints on. You roll them just like doing it on paper but the computer scans it. Then it does some little fancy analysis on it and gives it a grade, like poor, fair, good, etc... Keep redoing it until you get good or excellent. It then prints the fingerprints onto a card I think. The info goes back to the main Silencer Shop location in TX and they generate the paperwork. It's pretty a slick process honestly. They also offer to do Form 1s the same way.
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Re: Why is the BATFE stuck in the last century?

Post by W. Winget » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:00 am

Last thing we really ever want to see is an efficient BATF.
Between changing political views of those that do not even own a weapon deciding that the best way to end violence is to disarm those that obey the law, would you REALLY want them to be able to immediately tell who had what and where, etc.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the ONLY one that sends in paperwork is a honest citizen....of what benefit would it be to instantly track them down?

I don't have to get a government grant to analyze data to see that ZERO criminals have applied for permission to obtain a firearm...

By mandate the AFT cannot computerize....someone very early on realized the dangers of "instant" data recall and the threat it is to a free society. God Bless Them!

I do think it's dumb to do multiple checks and tax stamps once you obtain your 1st one though, as it's just more $$$ and hassle when your already checked out, but I can wait rather than streamline/computerize a system and hand it over to ever changing bureaucrats.

Remember: "I'm with the Government I'm here to help" or how about the Katrina arms confiscation?

No thanks.
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Re: Why is the BATFE stuck in the last century?

Post by lt.luke » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:42 am

W. Winget wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:00 am
Last thing we really ever want to see is an efficient BATF. I think I agree.

I don't have to get a government grant to analyze data to see that ZERO criminals have applied for permission to obtain a firearm... This is not a true statement. The Fort Hood shooter, the Vegas shooter, and the most recent Texas Church guy all got at least some of their guns with paperwork through a local gun store. The Church guy should have NOT been allowed to. And it was Uncle Sugar's fault he was able to...


I do think it's dumb to do multiple checks and tax stamps once you obtain your 1st one though, as it's just more $$$ and hassle when your already checked out, but I can wait rather than streamline/computerize a system and hand it over to ever changing bureaucrats. Agree...kinda. It only takes a few minutes to make yourself ineligible though.



No thanks.
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Re: Why is the BATFE stuck in the last century?

Post by W. Winget » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:15 am

Buying from a local dealer and signing a piece of paper does not equate to figuring out which form to use, obtaining blank forms, visiting the local police for 2 sets of finger prints, havig the LEO sign your papers, ponying up tax money, 2 photos, etc.

None of those individuals you mentioned ever dealt with BATF in that fashion, they either had an instant background check, a waiting period or in some cases made their own weapons out of the 80% blanks (Texas shooter I believe)

So I stand by my statement that ZERO criminals apply to BATF for their weapons.
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Re: Why is the BATFE stuck in the last century?

Post by Radtech » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:23 am

Not to mention the fact there has NEVER been a crime committed in the USA with a registered machine gun sense 1936.Strict government controls on machine guns began in 1936 two years after passage of the National Firearms Act of 1934.From 1936 to today there have been NO crimes committed in the US with a registered machine gun.The tax stamp is still $200 today as it was in 1936.$200 in 1936 allowing for inflation the tax stamp would be about $3,500 today.

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Re: Why is the BATFE stuck in the last century?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:27 am

Take a guess at who prevents the BATFE from going electronic?
Duh!
Who controls the budget for BATFE?
Who as a vested interest in mudding the waters of ownership?
Who feels that ANY step to improving following where straw purchases go is "bad"?
Who buys enough influence to keep it that way?
No
Responsible
Americans

It sure ain't "hunters and sportsmen".
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Re: Why is the BATFE stuck in the last century?

Post by W. Winget » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:51 am

Thank goodness for the NRA too. If you had someone like the NRA in the medical field standing against the Politicians, we would have never had Obama Care fiasco.
And inferring that I and association members are irresponsible is really childish isn't it Chuck? You have ZERO knowledge of NRA members, their backgrounds, etc.

This conversation was about a Government Organization not being empowered to become bigger than it should be.
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Re: Why is the BATFE stuck in the last century?

Post by Radtech » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:59 am

It was the NRA who helped push through the GCA68 .When I got my dealer FFL the jurisdiction was under the Treasury Department then in July 1972 the BATF was formed and took over.There were 5 ATF agents to handle the hundreds of licenses in my district.The only time I was ever audited in 20 years was when I received my class 3 dealer license and until I closed up shop 5 years later I was never audited again.There is no way today I would even consider another federal firearms license of any kind because of the current and future restrictions coming.

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Re: Why is the BATFE stuck in the last century?

Post by raymond » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:46 pm

Local CLEO signature is no longer required.

Raymond
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Re: Why is the BATFE stuck in the last century?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:43 am

Sorry, but it isn't about letting a gov't agency get bigger, it's about making it harder for the BATFE to do its JOB by withholding funds so new technology can't be implemented.
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Re: Why is the BATFE stuck in the last century?

Post by Bill H. » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:09 am

The BATF&E should be done away with and disbanded! Their over reach is completely out of control! Raymond, you should be able to buy that NIB M16A1 without any hassle or wait. Shall not be infringed!!!

If it were not for the NRA there would be absolutely no gun ownership in the USA. The thing the liberals don't like about the NRA is they keep the government in check and curtail their over reach regarding guns and their ownership. If the government would keep their filthy mitts out of the citizen's business there would not be an NRA.

And, it has nothing to do with hunters and sportsman! The second amendment does not make mention of either. It is about citizens right to bear arms. Nowhere does it mention what kind of arms nor does it mention how many.

This is all about power and holding the iron fist of liberalism over it's subjects.

Kool-Aid anyone?
Last edited by Bill H. on Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is the BATFE stuck in the last century?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:40 am

Let's review....

I don't think anyone would have a problem with you guys having all the musket loaders you could carry in a dump truck if that's what scratches your itch, but letting every Tom, Dick and Harry run around with full auto weapons does not work in any country where that "Wild West" attitude is currently happening. After all, the Founding Fathers saw the need for a "WELL-REGULATED MILITIA" and phrased it that way, not a bunch of gun-huggers in some doomsday bunker or some kids shooting up their high-school. Hell, the only thing "well regulated" is the gun/accessories mfgers funding legislation favorable to market share and the hell with any reasonable limitations on crazy bastards having firearms...and gutting the BATFE budget is a pretty obvious example of that.

I heard they allowed one AK-47 in each household in Iraq....maybe moving to that "civilized" country is an option? It seems to work there, right?
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Re: Why is the BATFE stuck in the last century?

Post by Bill H. » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:49 am

Shall not be infringed! Pretty simple statement. I would think anyone would be able to comprehend it's meaning but alas, some will never get it. :roll:
Bill H.

"Each shall seek his own kind, in other words, a bird may love a fish but where would they build a home together?" Tevye, Fiddler on the Roof

1952 Dunbar Kapple M100
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1962 AMC M422A1
1965 Stevens M416B1 X 2
1967 Kaiser M715

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