SIG wins Army contract
- TopKick
- G-Lieutenant General
- Posts: 5657
- Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:34 am
- Location: Olathe, KS.
Re: SIG wins Army contract
Crickets...anyone?
"Keep 'Em Rolling"
TopKick
"Until it's melted down and turned into something else, or blown to Smitherines, it's restorable"!
TopKick
"Until it's melted down and turned into something else, or blown to Smitherines, it's restorable"!
- USAFpj
- G-Brigadier General
- Posts: 2217
- Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:02 pm
- Location: SC
Re: SIG wins Army contract
Exactly. Depends on the politics of moving to the .45 vs. the 9mm.What will be the magazine capacity for this new Sig Sauer Modular Handgun?
- wreckless
- Gee Addict
- Posts: 32688
- Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:05 pm
- Location: SW Florida & SNJ
Re: SIG wins Army contract
It depends what sized grip frame is used. That's the beauty of the modular system. The licensed frame can be removed and slid into a full size, medium or compact sized plastic grip frame. One gun can now be three. 17 rds for full size 9mm, 15 rds for compact, and 12 rds in sub compact.
Rob
Jersey Wrecking Crew
1943 Ford GPW G503
“In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a Congress.“ John Adams
Jersey Wrecking Crew
1943 Ford GPW G503
“In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a Congress.“ John Adams
-
- G-First Lieutenant
- Posts: 643
- Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2003 3:47 pm
- Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Re: SIG wins Army contract
Having the coolest, most "adjustable", and most accurate pistol in the world is essentially worthless----UNLESS Uncle Sam coughs up training, far more than a handful of rounds fired once or twice a year to "qualify". Sure top tier units/troops get a considerable amount of pistol training, but the average joe that is handed a pistol gets hardly anything-irregardless of what branch of service we are talking about..
It takes thousands of rounds to bring someone up to a relatively proficient level of expertise with a pistol. And that is on a square range where the paper isn't shooting back at you.
I have been watching this subject on another website made up up of guys in this particular loop, all the way from the lowly grunt up to some of the people in the decision part of the subject (any many places in between).
Certainly there are some political considerations, business/logistical considerations, and other things that aren't making the headlines, but the training issue (or the lack thereof) constantly floats to the top.
It takes thousands of rounds to bring someone up to a relatively proficient level of expertise with a pistol. And that is on a square range where the paper isn't shooting back at you.
I have been watching this subject on another website made up up of guys in this particular loop, all the way from the lowly grunt up to some of the people in the decision part of the subject (any many places in between).
Certainly there are some political considerations, business/logistical considerations, and other things that aren't making the headlines, but the training issue (or the lack thereof) constantly floats to the top.
- Chuck Lutz
- Gee Addict
- Posts: 26829
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
- Location: Jeep Heaven
Re: SIG wins Army contract
The Marines, Army and other services call them "Riflemen" for a reason...because the RIFLE is the weapon they need to be the most proficient with, not the pistol. In the odd firefight where a squad actually runs out of rifle ammo and has to resort to their pistols for defense, this is close-in combat and being proficient at the range at 50 meters is probably not needed in that situation. As all "riflemen" (there goes that identifying name again) do not even get a pistol issued to them, the training is centered on their rifle and being "Proficient" with the M-240 or a sniper rifle or Ma Deuce or other squad-based weapon does not need to be at the level of "EXPERT MARKSMAN" and call for each squad member to fire an expensive amount of ammo for each of those weapons as they might be for their rifle. You need to know how to man that weapon but the level of your marksmanship just can't be as high or you'd never get off the RIFLE range to learn or practice the rest of your responsibilities.
So...while each squad member is required to know how to operate and fire each weapon in the squad and...what the bad guys are carrying....the level of their training and their marksmanship with the other weapons including the pistol just can't and doesn't measure up to the level they need to be with their assigned weapon...unfortunate but true.
As Bill pointed out, training and the expenditure of the same amount of ammo with a pistol (or an M-240 or whatever) that they use to stay proficient with their assigned weapon (For now, the M16 variants for the most part) would be what is required to expect expert marksmen with a pistol.
Just as the 9mm Beretta 92 series were scoffed at as a replacement for the .45ACP round, the SIG will also have its detractors and just as the Beretta has managed to answer the NATO 9mm ammunition requirement and serve as a good pistol over the years, it will take 10-20 years for the SIG to be judged to have been a wise move or not.
There is a saying about trying to fight the next war with the weapons and strategy of the last war....and certainly the M16 drew a lot of heat back in the beginning for many reasons, but after the AKs, the M16 is one of the most easily identifiable rifles out there and it seems to have a lot of owners based on that design who are happy with it.
Sounds like a forward thinking design and if it works like most Swiss or German designed machines it should do just fine.
So...while each squad member is required to know how to operate and fire each weapon in the squad and...what the bad guys are carrying....the level of their training and their marksmanship with the other weapons including the pistol just can't and doesn't measure up to the level they need to be with their assigned weapon...unfortunate but true.
As Bill pointed out, training and the expenditure of the same amount of ammo with a pistol (or an M-240 or whatever) that they use to stay proficient with their assigned weapon (For now, the M16 variants for the most part) would be what is required to expect expert marksmen with a pistol.
Just as the 9mm Beretta 92 series were scoffed at as a replacement for the .45ACP round, the SIG will also have its detractors and just as the Beretta has managed to answer the NATO 9mm ammunition requirement and serve as a good pistol over the years, it will take 10-20 years for the SIG to be judged to have been a wise move or not.
There is a saying about trying to fight the next war with the weapons and strategy of the last war....and certainly the M16 drew a lot of heat back in the beginning for many reasons, but after the AKs, the M16 is one of the most easily identifiable rifles out there and it seems to have a lot of owners based on that design who are happy with it.
Sounds like a forward thinking design and if it works like most Swiss or German designed machines it should do just fine.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
- wreckless
- Gee Addict
- Posts: 32688
- Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:05 pm
- Location: SW Florida & SNJ
BREAKING: Glock Protests XM17 MHS SIG Sauer Win
BREAKING: Glock Protests XM17 MHS SIG Sauer Win
SIG Sauer is not quite out of the woods yet regarding their recent Modular Handgun System contract win. Finalist Glock – who for many was the favorite to win – has protested the XM17 contract award. SIG won the MHS contract earlier this year with a variant of their P320 handgun based on the Compact frame. The news of SIG’s win was announced on January 19th, the day before the inauguration of the new US President and his administration.
In all honesty, a protest of the $580 million dollar MHS contract was likely inevitable. Contracts of this type are too large and too important for companies to let them go without a fight, and the nature of the GAO protest system is such that contracts can be protested relatively easily. However, the MHS contract was structured slightly differently than previous ones. Three contracts were awarded during the finalist phase, all three being indefinite delivery indefinite quantity (IDIQ), to SIG, Glock, and Beretta. There was some speculation that because these contracts were accepted by the three finalists, that a protest of the final contract award would not be possible, but with Glock’s protest that is evidently not the case.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017 ... Newsletter
SIG Sauer is not quite out of the woods yet regarding their recent Modular Handgun System contract win. Finalist Glock – who for many was the favorite to win – has protested the XM17 contract award. SIG won the MHS contract earlier this year with a variant of their P320 handgun based on the Compact frame. The news of SIG’s win was announced on January 19th, the day before the inauguration of the new US President and his administration.
In all honesty, a protest of the $580 million dollar MHS contract was likely inevitable. Contracts of this type are too large and too important for companies to let them go without a fight, and the nature of the GAO protest system is such that contracts can be protested relatively easily. However, the MHS contract was structured slightly differently than previous ones. Three contracts were awarded during the finalist phase, all three being indefinite delivery indefinite quantity (IDIQ), to SIG, Glock, and Beretta. There was some speculation that because these contracts were accepted by the three finalists, that a protest of the final contract award would not be possible, but with Glock’s protest that is evidently not the case.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017 ... Newsletter
Rob
Jersey Wrecking Crew
1943 Ford GPW G503
“In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a Congress.“ John Adams
Jersey Wrecking Crew
1943 Ford GPW G503
“In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a Congress.“ John Adams
- wreckless
- Gee Addict
- Posts: 32688
- Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:05 pm
- Location: SW Florida & SNJ
Re: SIG wins Army contract
BREAKING: Winchester Awarded as Ammunition Supplier for the U.S. Army MHS Contract
With Sig Sauer officially winning the XM17 US Army pistol contract, and Glock protesting the outcome of the trials, somebody has to supply the military ammunition. That is where Winchester comes into the picture. They have been selected as the ammunition supplier for the U.S. Army modular handgun system program.
Winchester already supplied the ammunition for all of the testing for the MHS trials. The US Army will now look to them to provide Full-Metal Jacket rounds as well as more Special Purpose ammunition in the future. This will give them plenty to do in the upcoming year by needing to fill both a substantial military obligation and to satisfy civilian consumer demands.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017 ... Newsletter
With Sig Sauer officially winning the XM17 US Army pistol contract, and Glock protesting the outcome of the trials, somebody has to supply the military ammunition. That is where Winchester comes into the picture. They have been selected as the ammunition supplier for the U.S. Army modular handgun system program.
Winchester already supplied the ammunition for all of the testing for the MHS trials. The US Army will now look to them to provide Full-Metal Jacket rounds as well as more Special Purpose ammunition in the future. This will give them plenty to do in the upcoming year by needing to fill both a substantial military obligation and to satisfy civilian consumer demands.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017 ... Newsletter
Rob
Jersey Wrecking Crew
1943 Ford GPW G503
“In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a Congress.“ John Adams
Jersey Wrecking Crew
1943 Ford GPW G503
“In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a Congress.“ John Adams
- TopKick
- G-Lieutenant General
- Posts: 5657
- Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:34 am
- Location: Olathe, KS.
Re: SIG wins Army contract
I much prefer Glock!
"Keep 'Em Rolling"
TopKick
"Until it's melted down and turned into something else, or blown to Smitherines, it's restorable"!
TopKick
"Until it's melted down and turned into something else, or blown to Smitherines, it's restorable"!
- USAFpj
- G-Brigadier General
- Posts: 2217
- Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:02 pm
- Location: SC
Re: SIG wins Army contract
I 2nd the motion.I much prefer Glock!
Why change a firearm that has proven itself with functionality, cost, reputation, availability, etc..? The Department of State has a great record with Glock as it's choice, and the data already compiled would substantiate that. I'm not even a Glock fan, but can see that (to me) there's not a reason to change. Reminds me of the DoD Generals and their desire to change the Class A uniform before they retire
-
- G-Private First Class
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 2:47 pm
- Location:
Re: SIG wins Army contract
if it ain,t broke don,t fix it 1911 keep your tupper where in the kitchen
- raymond
- G-General
- Posts: 8116
- Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:53 pm
- Location: God's country, Clarksville Mo.
Re: SIG wins Army contract
1911 was a great pistol for it's time.
That time has long since passed.
Raymond
That time has long since passed.
Raymond
"On the day when crime puts on the apparel of innocence, through a curious reversal peculiar to our age, it is innocence that is called on to justify itself." Albert Camus
- Chuck Lutz
- Gee Addict
- Posts: 26829
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
- Location: Jeep Heaven
Re: SIG wins Army contract
Here is the Sig P320 in question...
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 57 guests