A WORD OF CAUTION HERE...........

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A WORD OF CAUTION HERE...........

Postby Jim Gilmore » Sun Dec 22, 2002 8:57 pm

I should warn users of this list in this section that agents of the Federal Government monitor websites such as these. Be careful what you say and or sell as others on another of this type of list have had visits from these agents after they posted wants and for sale items.

These are destructive devices and if capable of firing are illegal in many states and must be registered with the Federal Government.

For example, owning any artillery weither live or not is a feloney in the state of Michigan!

Be forewarned.......

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DD's, Demill's and Class III

Postby Austin » Mon Dec 23, 2002 9:28 am

Registered Destructive Devices (D.D.'s) may be legally owned by citizens of most US states, as well as registered Machine Guns. Cannons and machine guns that have been de-activated per ATF guidelines may be owned by anyone and are not subject to any firearm regulations. De-activiation of a cannon may include permanently welding the breech-ring in-place. A person may possess the breech ring or the cannon (less breech ring) without any regulation other than normal firearm transfer (yellow sheet); however, one person cannot have both together without proper ATF D.D. registration. Also, a person may register a new D.D. granted he is not in possession of the ring or gun during the registration process and the parts are from 2 diff. sources.

Happy Firing!!

Austin Weber
Marble Falls, Texas

BTW: The commies in Kalifornia (specifically public officials) won't allow either DDs or Class III.
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Re: DD's, Demill's and Class III

Postby Jason Green » Mon Dec 23, 2002 9:55 pm

Austin wrote:BTW: The commies in Kalifornia (specifically public officials) won't allow either DDs or Class III.


Actually your wrong about the Class 3 and DD is Commfornia, it is one of the states with the highest number of registered Title 2 firearms in the country. There are tons of papered Dewats (read NOT DEMILS) that coming out of there from time to time. I have bought a few very nice examples from people in that state. Most recently a almost mint MG 08/15 with all the hard to find parts. It came out of a small town right above San Francisco.

The good thing is that the Feds will not turn over the records of registered Title 2 to the Calf DOJ because they are considered tax information.

But on the other hand, try getting one into the state. It might be easier to get a free ride on the shuttle.

Gotta run, it's late.
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Re: DD's, Demill's and Class III

Postby Jason Green » Mon Dec 23, 2002 9:57 pm

Austin wrote:BTW: The commies in Kalifornia (specifically public officials) won't allow either DDs or Class III.


Actually your wrong about the Class 3 and DD is Commfornia, it is one of the states with the highest number of registered Title 2 firearms in the country. There are tons of papered Dewats (read NOT DEMILS) that coming out of there from time to time. I have bought a few very nice examples from people in that state. Most recently a almost mint MG 08/15 with all the hard to find parts. It came out of a small town right above San Francisco.

The good thing is that the Feds will not turn over the records of registered Title 2 to the Calf DOJ because they are considered tax information.

But on the other hand, try getting one into the state. It might be easier to get a free ride on the shuttle.

Gotta run, it's late.
Jason
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Kali

Postby Austin » Tue Dec 24, 2002 8:35 pm

Jason, your right about that, people who have historically owned Class III in K can have them, but try to transfer one into the state, or if you live in that commie state, try to buy one from out-of-stateand bring it in. Great to live free in Texas!

Regards, Austin
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Postby Gordon Pringle » Thu Dec 26, 2002 9:04 am

Believe it or not in Canada we can own a cannon, go figure, its just the ammunition for them is outlawed. Talk about wacko gun laws!
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Demiiled MGs?

Postby Lee Bishop » Thu Dec 26, 2002 8:04 pm

I live in WA state, someone was asking what it took to properly demil an MG for a "display" piece in this state, I have no idea.
I do have an IMA "Boat anchor" .30 cal, but that's legal anywhere, he was asking about taking (I guess) a live MG and what you had to do to it so it would be legal and still "look" good.
Does anyone have HARD data on this? What's the reference material I can find? He got me curious myself...
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Postby David Calhoun » Thu Dec 26, 2002 8:22 pm

Lee-

I would think a quick call to the BATF would net you that info.
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okay...

Postby Lee Bishop » Thu Dec 26, 2002 8:25 pm

Dave,
I agree, but WHO in the ATF do I call?
I've been looking for a few days, but I can't find anyone who will give a firm thumbs up/down on this.
Everyone has their ideas of what is and isn't legal, but I've yet to find the DEFINITIVE document that says it in writing...
Lee
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Postby Paul FitzGerald » Fri Dec 27, 2002 11:04 pm

Lee:
I also live in the P.R. Kalifornication.
I called the ATF in Atlanta wanting to get my 1919A4 cleared as a DEWAT item The paper work was OUTRAGOUS and I asked what was required to complete the process. All I got was a lot of P.C. BULLSHI$ from them. The item in question is basiclly one solid chunk of scrap metal with a clear plastic right side plate to show the non working insides. You know rod in barrel welded shut etc...
Things is getting worse. :cry:
Cheers
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Postby David Calhoun » Sat Dec 28, 2002 12:11 am

Now that doesn't sound encouraging...

Lee-
As long as you're trying to contact them, why not go to the top? The Director's name is Bradley Buckles, and the 24-hour phone number is (202) 927-8500. You might try that. At least they could tell you where to send the written stuff. :roll:
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Postby Sheltie » Sat Dec 28, 2002 10:16 pm

Lee,

You want to call the ATF Firearms Technology branch. Probably want to ask for someone that does the actual inspection of firearms, not the enforcement people.

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Postby Jim Gilmore » Sun Dec 29, 2002 9:01 pm

Austin wrote,

".....Registered Destructive Devices (D.D.'s) may be legally owned by citizens of most US states, as well as registered Machine Guns. Cannons and machine guns that have been de-activated per ATF guidelines may be owned by anyone and are not subject to any firearm regulations. ...."

Ah Austin.....A little knowledge is often a dangerous thing.......


You are very, very wrong when you say they can be owned by anyone. You are citing Federal law. As a matter of fact several states have state laws that determine if you can own cannons or not. Michigan is one that it is a FELONY to possess a cannon wiether it is live or deactivated! In fact, it is a FELONY to offer a deactivated cannon for sale in the state of Michigan.
It is called "the Attack or Defense Vehicle" law and I will assure you that I am correct.

When it comes to ownership of National Firearms Act weapons the Federal law is not always the law that determines if it is legal to own them. State law can superceed Federal law. The more restrictive law is the one that determines the legality of NFA weapon ownership.

As I said before, be careful what you post ....others are reading them......

Jim Gilmore

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DD's

Postby Austin » Tue Dec 31, 2002 10:56 pm

Professor Jim,

Well, OK

All I can say is a person would have to be a complete moron not to find out the specific federal AND state laws to which state he/her lives that pertain to cannon ownership prior to purchasing one.

Smile, it's a new year! :D
Austin
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Postby Raymond Smith » Wed Jan 15, 2003 11:17 am

For a great website on all things having to do with NFA weapons, and Destructive Devices, go to www.subguns.com . The message boards there are very helpful.
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