CCKW Warner 5 speed

Military Trucks 2 1/2 ton and greater, Wanted, For Sale (NO AUCTION or EBAY), and Knowledge Base

Moderator: kw573

lester4238
G-Sergeant Major
G-Sergeant Major
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:07 am
Location: Idaho

CCKW Warner 5 speed

Post by lester4238 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:17 pm

Ok guys, I gots a question. I pulled a 5 speed transmission out of a CCKW thinking it was a Clark 5 speed. When I scraped the grease off, turns out it is a Warner 5 speed. I don't think this was original to a CCKW. This has a speedometer cable drive assembly bolted on the back. In my small mind that would mean this came out of a 4 X 6, not a 6X6. Speedometer cables should run to the transfer case not the transmission. The CCKW was a 6 X 6 with a transfer case that had a speedometer cable hooked up to it. My question is what truck did this come out of originally? It has a data plate saying it was rebuilt by Ordnance in 1954. I also have a second transmission that came out of another CCKW that has a upside down triangle emblem. There is some letters in the middle but I cannot read them. What brand would that be and what did it go to originally?


Joe Gopan
Jeep Heaven
Posts: 49841
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed

Post by Joe Gopan » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:28 pm

US6 uses the Warner, it is same as the Clark 5 Speed Overdrive except for the Main Drive Gear, I believe it is the Warner T-93. If you have an ORD 8 G-508 dated 1951 you will note the numerous "WG" (Warner Gear components) listed in that CCKW Parts Manual. I installed a NOS Warner Shifting Cover in my CCKW.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

mudflap
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:07 pm
Location: SE MI

Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed

Post by mudflap » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:57 pm

Hi lester4238,

My TM9-1801 (March '44) shows the CCKW with either the 204 VO-273, made by Clark Equipment, or the AS-3-T-93 made by Warner. However the parts list shows the same GM PNs regardless of which trans.

Are there any other markings or data plates on your trans? Anything on the ordnance rebuild tag, perhaps?

As you mention, the speedo cable on the CCKW runs off of the transfer case. My Ord 9 SNL G-508 (July '45) parts manual lists the same PN for both CCW (6x4) and the CCKW so I would have to assume that the CCW speedo cable runs off of the transfer case as in the CCKW.

I have two CCKW transmissions. One which came in the truck, and one that I purchased several years ago attached to a 270 engine. The one I purchased with the engine had "Warner" cast into the case. The one in the truck has the inverted triangle with illegible letters in the center like your description. I'm thinking that it is probably a Clark Equipment trans. Neither has the nice big data plate - like they always show in the TMs.

I had a link somewhere showing listing of Clark transmissions, their model numbers, along with the various gear ratios in each. If I can find it, I will post it. Maybe my comparing the gear ratios in your trans with that list you can help you ID the model.

Hi Ben,

You mentioned "Warner Gear" components listed in the later (1951) parts manual. Just to clarify, are you saying that the parts between the two can be different? I just rebuilt my Warner trans and saw nothing in my parts manual that would differentiate between the two.

Also, as for the different main drive gear in the US-6, is that because of a different clutch perhaps?

Best Regards....

Joe Gopan
Jeep Heaven
Posts: 49841
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:44 pm

T-93 Series Warner is same as the Clark used in CCKW, The Studebaker US6 used Same T-93 except for the Main Drive Gear (Pilot Shaft). To install T-93 made for US6, just install CCKW M.D. Gear.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

lester4238
G-Sergeant Major
G-Sergeant Major
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:07 am
Location: Idaho

Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed

Post by lester4238 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:57 am

Well it looks like I managed to get a picture on here.
Attachments
DSCF3401.JPG
DSCF3401.JPG (164.83 KiB) Viewed 2614 times

lester4238
G-Sergeant Major
G-Sergeant Major
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:07 am
Location: Idaho

Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed

Post by lester4238 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:00 am

Here is a picture of the rebuild tag.
Attachments
DSCF3400.JPG
DSCF3400.JPG (236.97 KiB) Viewed 2614 times

lester4238
G-Sergeant Major
G-Sergeant Major
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:07 am
Location: Idaho

Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed

Post by lester4238 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:03 am

Last picture, this time the triangle logo.
Attachments
DSCF3383.JPG
DSCF3383.JPG (195.07 KiB) Viewed 2614 times

mudflap
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:07 pm
Location: SE MI

Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed

Post by mudflap » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:41 am

Found the link I was looking for that IDs various manual transmissions. Unfortunately, the T-93 is not listed.

http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catal ... size.html


Here is a pic of the casting on my Warner Gear trans:

CCKW Warner 01.jpg
CCKW Warner 01.jpg (204.75 KiB) Viewed 2572 times



This trans, the one that originally came with the truck, has that arrow head shape. Not sure how it relates to "Clark Equipment" - maybe it is subcontractor that cast the housings? Since the other trans is a Warner, gotta believe this is a Clark, right?

CCKW Clark Trans 01.jpg
CCKW Clark Trans 01.jpg (176.06 KiB) Viewed 2572 times



Finally, has anybody actually seen a trans with data plate as shown in the TMs? Or was this just one used for making the TM...


Trans TM Image.JPG
Trans TM Image.JPG (48.04 KiB) Viewed 2572 times


Best Regards...

Joe Gopan
Jeep Heaven
Posts: 49841
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:50 am

Mine has the plate. I have several Euro Surplus transmissions from rebuilt CCKW's we had cut up in France, and would not be surprised to see a Warner casting. I also have 40's-50's truck transmission parts books that list T-93 and Clark 204-VO together and show some4 of the parts in 40's-50's Ford F-8 Trucks. The WWII Army Ord Interchanges indicate the CCKW with a T-93.
My NOS CCKW Shifter covers are Warners. Both are same quality.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

mudflap
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:07 pm
Location: SE MI

Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed

Post by mudflap » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:41 pm

FYI...

Just happened to be leafing through my copy of Doyle's "The GMC CCKW Truck in U.S Service" last night.

On Page 75, it says that the Clark transmissions were used in the trucks built at the GMC plant in Pontiac, while the Warner Gear transmissions were used in the trucks built at the Chevy plant in St. Louis.

Best Regards...

Joe Gopan
Jeep Heaven
Posts: 49841
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:52 pm

Do you plan to use the T-93?
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

mudflap
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:07 pm
Location: SE MI

Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed

Post by mudflap » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:50 pm

Do you plan to use the T-93?
Hi Ben,

Not sure if you were asking me, or lester4238.

As for me, I rebuilt the Warner last spring and it is now in my truck so I will definitely keep it. :) It had apparently spent a good portion of its life sitting with water in it, so the insides, while not showing much wear, were pretty rusty. New bearings, a couple of gears, a mainshaft and a lot of cleaning put it back into shape. It shifts nicely and is very quiet in all gears (except for the straight cut ones, obviously).

As for the Clark unit that came out, I will probably go through it this winter so I'll have a spare. Third was starting to get noisy, and fifth sounded like a threshing machine any time it was engaged. During the swap I got a cursory look at it's innards and noticed both gears - especially fifth - were pretty loose on the mainshaft. Will need to tear it down and inspect things more closely to see what is needed.

Best Regards....

lester4238
G-Sergeant Major
G-Sergeant Major
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:07 am
Location: Idaho

Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed

Post by lester4238 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:34 pm

I have a customer who is interested in the Warner. I thought it was a Clark when I pulled it from the CCKW. It was covered in grease and I did not clean it up until after I told my customer I had a Clark. I thought they only used Clarks at that time. I wanted to learn about the Warner and the Arrow head transmission before I sold them. Anyone have any idea what the name of the company that had the arrow head logo? Is there other brands of transmissions that went into a CCKW?

lester4238
G-Sergeant Major
G-Sergeant Major
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:07 am
Location: Idaho

Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed

Post by lester4238 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:29 am

I finally got the ratio's to the best of my ability that is.
1.00 - 1
1.75 - 1
3.50 - 1
6.00 - 1
0.75 - 1
This is for both transmissions.

Joe Gopan
Jeep Heaven
Posts: 49841
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:35 am

And the CCKW will not know the difference.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO


Post Reply

Return to “Trucks 2 1/2 ton +”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 40 guests