CCKW Warner 5 speed
Moderator: kw573
-
- G-Sergeant Major
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:07 am
- Location: Idaho
CCKW Warner 5 speed
Ok guys, I gots a question. I pulled a 5 speed transmission out of a CCKW thinking it was a Clark 5 speed. When I scraped the grease off, turns out it is a Warner 5 speed. I don't think this was original to a CCKW. This has a speedometer cable drive assembly bolted on the back. In my small mind that would mean this came out of a 4 X 6, not a 6X6. Speedometer cables should run to the transfer case not the transmission. The CCKW was a 6 X 6 with a transfer case that had a speedometer cable hooked up to it. My question is what truck did this come out of originally? It has a data plate saying it was rebuilt by Ordnance in 1954. I also have a second transmission that came out of another CCKW that has a upside down triangle emblem. There is some letters in the middle but I cannot read them. What brand would that be and what did it go to originally?
-
- Jeep Heaven
- Posts: 49841
- Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
- Location: Proving Ground
Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed
US6 uses the Warner, it is same as the Clark 5 Speed Overdrive except for the Main Drive Gear, I believe it is the Warner T-93. If you have an ORD 8 G-508 dated 1951 you will note the numerous "WG" (Warner Gear components) listed in that CCKW Parts Manual. I installed a NOS Warner Shifting Cover in my CCKW.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO
-
- Sergeant Major of the Gee
- Posts: 356
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:07 pm
- Location: SE MI
Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed
Hi lester4238,
My TM9-1801 (March '44) shows the CCKW with either the 204 VO-273, made by Clark Equipment, or the AS-3-T-93 made by Warner. However the parts list shows the same GM PNs regardless of which trans.
Are there any other markings or data plates on your trans? Anything on the ordnance rebuild tag, perhaps?
As you mention, the speedo cable on the CCKW runs off of the transfer case. My Ord 9 SNL G-508 (July '45) parts manual lists the same PN for both CCW (6x4) and the CCKW so I would have to assume that the CCW speedo cable runs off of the transfer case as in the CCKW.
I have two CCKW transmissions. One which came in the truck, and one that I purchased several years ago attached to a 270 engine. The one I purchased with the engine had "Warner" cast into the case. The one in the truck has the inverted triangle with illegible letters in the center like your description. I'm thinking that it is probably a Clark Equipment trans. Neither has the nice big data plate - like they always show in the TMs.
I had a link somewhere showing listing of Clark transmissions, their model numbers, along with the various gear ratios in each. If I can find it, I will post it. Maybe my comparing the gear ratios in your trans with that list you can help you ID the model.
Hi Ben,
You mentioned "Warner Gear" components listed in the later (1951) parts manual. Just to clarify, are you saying that the parts between the two can be different? I just rebuilt my Warner trans and saw nothing in my parts manual that would differentiate between the two.
Also, as for the different main drive gear in the US-6, is that because of a different clutch perhaps?
Best Regards....
My TM9-1801 (March '44) shows the CCKW with either the 204 VO-273, made by Clark Equipment, or the AS-3-T-93 made by Warner. However the parts list shows the same GM PNs regardless of which trans.
Are there any other markings or data plates on your trans? Anything on the ordnance rebuild tag, perhaps?
As you mention, the speedo cable on the CCKW runs off of the transfer case. My Ord 9 SNL G-508 (July '45) parts manual lists the same PN for both CCW (6x4) and the CCKW so I would have to assume that the CCW speedo cable runs off of the transfer case as in the CCKW.
I have two CCKW transmissions. One which came in the truck, and one that I purchased several years ago attached to a 270 engine. The one I purchased with the engine had "Warner" cast into the case. The one in the truck has the inverted triangle with illegible letters in the center like your description. I'm thinking that it is probably a Clark Equipment trans. Neither has the nice big data plate - like they always show in the TMs.
I had a link somewhere showing listing of Clark transmissions, their model numbers, along with the various gear ratios in each. If I can find it, I will post it. Maybe my comparing the gear ratios in your trans with that list you can help you ID the model.
Hi Ben,
You mentioned "Warner Gear" components listed in the later (1951) parts manual. Just to clarify, are you saying that the parts between the two can be different? I just rebuilt my Warner trans and saw nothing in my parts manual that would differentiate between the two.
Also, as for the different main drive gear in the US-6, is that because of a different clutch perhaps?
Best Regards....
-
- Jeep Heaven
- Posts: 49841
- Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
- Location: Proving Ground
Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed
T-93 Series Warner is same as the Clark used in CCKW, The Studebaker US6 used Same T-93 except for the Main Drive Gear (Pilot Shaft). To install T-93 made for US6, just install CCKW M.D. Gear.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO
-
- G-Sergeant Major
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:07 am
- Location: Idaho
Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed
Well it looks like I managed to get a picture on here.
- Attachments
-
- DSCF3401.JPG (164.83 KiB) Viewed 2616 times
-
- G-Sergeant Major
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:07 am
- Location: Idaho
Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed
Here is a picture of the rebuild tag.
- Attachments
-
- DSCF3400.JPG (236.97 KiB) Viewed 2616 times
-
- G-Sergeant Major
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:07 am
- Location: Idaho
Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed
Last picture, this time the triangle logo.
- Attachments
-
- DSCF3383.JPG (195.07 KiB) Viewed 2616 times
-
- Sergeant Major of the Gee
- Posts: 356
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:07 pm
- Location: SE MI
Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed
Found the link I was looking for that IDs various manual transmissions. Unfortunately, the T-93 is not listed.
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catal ... size.html
Here is a pic of the casting on my Warner Gear trans:
This trans, the one that originally came with the truck, has that arrow head shape. Not sure how it relates to "Clark Equipment" - maybe it is subcontractor that cast the housings? Since the other trans is a Warner, gotta believe this is a Clark, right?
Finally, has anybody actually seen a trans with data plate as shown in the TMs? Or was this just one used for making the TM...
Best Regards...
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_catal ... size.html
Here is a pic of the casting on my Warner Gear trans:
This trans, the one that originally came with the truck, has that arrow head shape. Not sure how it relates to "Clark Equipment" - maybe it is subcontractor that cast the housings? Since the other trans is a Warner, gotta believe this is a Clark, right?
Finally, has anybody actually seen a trans with data plate as shown in the TMs? Or was this just one used for making the TM...
Best Regards...
-
- Jeep Heaven
- Posts: 49841
- Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
- Location: Proving Ground
Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed
Mine has the plate. I have several Euro Surplus transmissions from rebuilt CCKW's we had cut up in France, and would not be surprised to see a Warner casting. I also have 40's-50's truck transmission parts books that list T-93 and Clark 204-VO together and show some4 of the parts in 40's-50's Ford F-8 Trucks. The WWII Army Ord Interchanges indicate the CCKW with a T-93.
My NOS CCKW Shifter covers are Warners. Both are same quality.
My NOS CCKW Shifter covers are Warners. Both are same quality.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO
-
- Sergeant Major of the Gee
- Posts: 356
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:07 pm
- Location: SE MI
Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed
FYI...
Just happened to be leafing through my copy of Doyle's "The GMC CCKW Truck in U.S Service" last night.
On Page 75, it says that the Clark transmissions were used in the trucks built at the GMC plant in Pontiac, while the Warner Gear transmissions were used in the trucks built at the Chevy plant in St. Louis.
Best Regards...
Just happened to be leafing through my copy of Doyle's "The GMC CCKW Truck in U.S Service" last night.
On Page 75, it says that the Clark transmissions were used in the trucks built at the GMC plant in Pontiac, while the Warner Gear transmissions were used in the trucks built at the Chevy plant in St. Louis.
Best Regards...
-
- Jeep Heaven
- Posts: 49841
- Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
- Location: Proving Ground
Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed
Do you plan to use the T-93?
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO
-
- Sergeant Major of the Gee
- Posts: 356
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:07 pm
- Location: SE MI
Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed
Hi Ben,Do you plan to use the T-93?
Not sure if you were asking me, or lester4238.
As for me, I rebuilt the Warner last spring and it is now in my truck so I will definitely keep it. It had apparently spent a good portion of its life sitting with water in it, so the insides, while not showing much wear, were pretty rusty. New bearings, a couple of gears, a mainshaft and a lot of cleaning put it back into shape. It shifts nicely and is very quiet in all gears (except for the straight cut ones, obviously).
As for the Clark unit that came out, I will probably go through it this winter so I'll have a spare. Third was starting to get noisy, and fifth sounded like a threshing machine any time it was engaged. During the swap I got a cursory look at it's innards and noticed both gears - especially fifth - were pretty loose on the mainshaft. Will need to tear it down and inspect things more closely to see what is needed.
Best Regards....
-
- G-Sergeant Major
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:07 am
- Location: Idaho
Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed
I have a customer who is interested in the Warner. I thought it was a Clark when I pulled it from the CCKW. It was covered in grease and I did not clean it up until after I told my customer I had a Clark. I thought they only used Clarks at that time. I wanted to learn about the Warner and the Arrow head transmission before I sold them. Anyone have any idea what the name of the company that had the arrow head logo? Is there other brands of transmissions that went into a CCKW?
-
- G-Sergeant Major
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:07 am
- Location: Idaho
Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed
I finally got the ratio's to the best of my ability that is.
1.00 - 1
1.75 - 1
3.50 - 1
6.00 - 1
0.75 - 1
This is for both transmissions.
1.00 - 1
1.75 - 1
3.50 - 1
6.00 - 1
0.75 - 1
This is for both transmissions.
-
- Jeep Heaven
- Posts: 49841
- Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
- Location: Proving Ground
Re: CCKW Warner 5 speed
And the CCKW will not know the difference.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 41 guests