G503 Halftrack Database

[Joe DeMarco]

Hi Murphy,


>No data plate but we found the frame # m3 27054 And the reg# on the bumper of 4063515 right side and 716 on the left side bumper.

M3, Serial Number 27054 would have been one of the last Autocar M3s made, & would have been accepted in the last quarter of 1943. By any chance is there a typo in the registration number you reported? 27054 would correspond to USA 4065315. In general, the reg number on the bumper indicates a 1950s M16A1 conversion. In the Oct 2nd post above, John found 1546 stamped in the upper left corner of his M16A1 conversion dataplate. I suspect that indicates it was the 1546th conversion done by Bowen Mclaughlin & his plate was dated 5/52. The 716 you saw on the bumper may be the same kind of conversion sequence number?


Hi Clint,

>The number is 4017347.


This new info is from Autocar M3A1-48609, correct? That would work. Is that one of those examples where the original serial number is X'd out on the frame above or below the new S/N? If so, the info that was X'd out should be M3-75-374. That would have been accepted as M3 GMC in April, 1942, & then converted by ACC & accepted as a new M3A1 around April, 1945.


>18 Months ago I bought an M3A1 Halftrack, the number stamped into the chassis under the front driving side wing is:

M3A1
858248

Mal, did you find that stamped into the frame behind the front wheel on the driver's side? If so, maybe you could recheck it, since the numbers don't make any sense?



Joe

[halftrack9]

Hi Joe

This number, of which I am sending a photo of, is underneath the front wing on the drivers side chassis. I have checked inside the bumper and I have also checked on the bracket that holds the roller and there are no numbers at all. Looking at the picture, it looks to me that some numbers have been ground out. Any information or advice you could give would be very much appreciated

Best regards
Mal

[murphy]

Joe Thanks for the info i finally got the time to recheck the reg# it is 4063515 Im not sure what this means But i buffed the paint off and that is what the # stamped in to the bumper reads. is there another place i can check to verify this # or are there exceptions and is this possibly correct? Thanks murphy

[Joe DeMarco]

Hi Murphy,


>i finally got the time to recheck the reg# it is 4063515

OK. I'm pretty sure that Reg Number would have been assigned to a Diamond T M3A1, S/N 25254. If I've done the math correctly "M3A10424" would be what should be stamped on the frame. I suppose you might have the bumper from that Diamond T on your Autocar M3 S/N 27054. Originally, I thought maybe you had made a typo & flipped 4063515 vs 4065315 in your post, but maybe it was the person who stamped the number on the bumper? Period typos are not unheard of. Note that one of the members has an M16A1 conversion which he reported from dataplate & frame is ACC M3-27141 / USA 4065402.


Mal, if you meant to post a photo, it didn't come through.

M3A1
858248

Thinking about that, I suspect 858248 may be the Matricule Number assigned by the French when they received that as either a regular HT or M16A1 as MDAP in the 1950s. Some half tracks in Israeli
service can be seen in photos to have a 6 digit number beginning with 8 painted on the hoods as well. If that is the case, I'm afraid there is no way to ID who made a particular track & when if all that can be found are ID numbers assigned by other countries.


Joe

[halftrack9]

Hi Joe

The number i originally sent (858248) was welded to a plate which was fastened to the bumper. I am now assuming the Israelies fitted this. The number shown in the photos i tried to send was M3A1 48568 which was found on the chassis when i re-checked. Unfortunately I am having trouble uploading the photos. Does this make any more sense.

Best regards
Mal

[Joe DeMarco]

Hi Mal,

>M3A1 48568 which was found on the chassis when i re-checked. Does this make any more sense.

Yes, that definitely makes more sense than 858248. What you have is another example of a track that was originally accepted as an M3 75mm GMC, & later converted by Autocar, & accepted as a new M3A1 in April, 1945. That was too late for WW II, so I suspect that was sent to the French as MDAP in the early '50s. It could have been either a regular M3A1 or may have been converted to M16A1. France got both. Can you see any hints on it? As best I can tell, all of the M3-75s were built with rollers, & I think you said yours has one? If it was converted to M16A1, you may find the original M3-75 USA Number stamped on the front bumper. Also, you may see the original M3-75 serial number stamped above or below M3A1-48568 on the frame, but it will be cross-hatched out. (You may be able to read it, nonetheless.)


>the authorities over here need to know date of manufacture.

You could tell them Autocar, April, 1945. Despite the fact that it was actually made as M3-75 a couple years earlier, the official docs state that those conversions were accepted as new M3A1s. If it was me, I'd want to know the M3-75 info as well, if possible. If you could read the crossed out M3-75 serial number off the frame, or find the USA number stamped on the bumper or under the paint layers on the hoods, it would be possible to determine when it was accepted as M3-75.

HTH,

Joe

[Pete Gookin]

Hi Joe

I just acquired an M2 Frame with winch, White S/N 274821 any chance of working up an ordnance and hood number?
The frame also has a bumper from an M16 installed on it with the hood number 4049381 stamped into it

I also acquired a cab from an M2 converted to M2a1 with data plate White S/N 233759 Ordnance Number 4466

Thanks Pete

[Joe DeMarco]

>I just acquired an M2 Frame with winch, White S/N 274821 any chance of working up an ordnance and hood number?

Pete, I have in my notes that a winch unit with a B & M M2 to M2A1 dataplate was for sale on Ebay in 2008. It was listed as Ord No 9262, MFRs No 274806.
It won't be exact, but you could just add 15 to those figures, & "pretend" like yours is Ord 9277, MFR 274821, USA 4024210. I'm sure that would be within + / - 50 of the real numbers.

>The frame also has a bumper from an M16 installed on it with the hood number 4049381 stamped into it

Yes, that would have been from M16 S/N 1148. The Reg Number stamped into the bumper is probably a clue of an early 1950s M16A2 conversion.

>I also acquired a cab from an M2 converted to M2a1 with data plate White S/N 233759 Ordnance Number 4466

That would have been 1942 White production like your frame. Not 100 % certain, but I think the corresponding USA Number would have been 4014664.

I assume you will be combining all of these? You can see how the M16 bumper info might create confusion if you didn't know that was what it was. I've been surprised that there hasn't been a lot more contradictory stuff like that reported. Suggest you keep notes of your data "attached" to the track for future reference.

Best of luck with your project,

Joe

[Pete Gookin]

Joe,
Thank you for the well wishes and the info. Yep, it's pretty much a Frankenstien Halftrack, So far it has parts from 2 m16's and 3 M2's and thats just what I know of.
I've built a computer file listing which parts came from which Numbers. I plan to keep track of these as I progress.
Thanks again, Pete

[airborne-53]

hello
3 others
one M2 french air force model , 48 rebuild
frame M2 7958 , no data plate




one M3
M3 4549W ?? no data plate







one M5
need to check serial number , no data plate










thanks
olivier

[Joe DeMarco]

Hi olivier

>frame M2 7958 , no data plate

I'll just address the above M2, since that's the only one that is "for sure." It would have been made by Autocar on their third Production Order. As best I have been able to determine, the serial numbers ran from 6601 thru 8000. At 7958, yours would have been one of the last ones built on this P.O., & it helps the research a bit that the stamping is in the Autocar format. (Presumably, 8001 would have been a White built M2.) 7958 would have been accepted in the second half of 1943. The theory is that the "key" number for the range 6601 thru 8000 is 4012931. However, I have only been able to record a single definitive confirm of this so far. If the key number is correct, yours would have been assigned USA 4020889. (7958 + 4012931 = 4020889.) If you uncover a USA Number from the hoods, or stamped into the bumper or one of the bogies, would you let us know, please? A surviving half track in Europe has a much better chance of having served during WW II than one in the US. If you learn anything of the history of 7958, please let us know.

Joe

[airborne-53]

hello
thanks for informations
no original paint on M2 , it's french rebuilt like this one




one similar restored
http://www.primeportal.net/apc/david_lu ... halftrack/

48 rebuilt used in indochina war

thanks
olivier

[John W F]

Happy Holidays Joe,

Back at the end of September you asked me if there was a number stamped on the top left corner of my M-16A1 rebuild data plate. There is a number stamped into the top left: "1546". Could you tell me to what that number refers?

Also, in David Haugh's book, on page 25, he briefly mentions a 1944 remanufacturing program in which Bowen & McLaughlin remanufactured 1045 half-tracks. Do you know anything about that remanufacturing program?

Thanks,

John

[Joe DeMarco]

Hi John,

>Back at the end of September you asked me if there was a number stamped on the top left corner of my M-16A1 rebuild data plate. There is a number stamped into the top left: "1546". Could you tell me to what that number refers?

The photos you posted back then were postage stamp size, so I couldn't see what was on the dataplate. I think the 1546 is basically the B & M serial number, indicating that was the 1546th M16A1 conversion. Another guy reported one with a 5-52 conversion date & his was 1466.


>Also, in David Haugh's book, on page 25, he briefly mentions a 1944 remanufacturing program in which Bowen & McLaughlin remanufactured 1045 half-tracks. Do you know anything about that >remanufacturing program?

According to "The Summary Report of Acceptances," B & M converted 1445 M3s to M3A1s. Dave has the monthly totals in his book.They did 1045 from May to Dec, 1944, & a further 400 in 1945.
It's not in Dave's book, but according to the SRA, B & M also converted 722 M2s to M2A1s in 1945.
Some of the guys have posted those "M2A1 was M2" dataplates in earlier pages of this thread.


HTH & HNY,

Joe

[appel]

two extra's
m2-7988 belgium , winch, fmh lights rebuilt m2a1
m2a1-11252 belgium, winch fmh lights m2a1