M3 progress

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clintm20
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Re: M3 progress

Post by clintm20 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:10 pm

Nice going Don. Your halftrack is only the second M3 I've seen with the early style turnbuckle for the rear idler. It wraps around the back of the frame like an M2. I realized recently that this is what the spacers are for on the rear crossmember for most M3 frames I've seen, to compensate for the turnbuckle not being bolted to the back crossmember anymore.
Green Trucks and High Tides Forever

Diamond T M3 Half-track Serial # M32971 USA 4045956
Autocar M3A1 Half-track Serial # M3A1-47825 USA 4053835
Autocar M16A1 Half-track Serial # M15A1-1945 USA 40150662


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Spec4Don
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Re: M3 progress

Post by Spec4Don » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:29 pm

Clint, I didn't even clue in on that :shock: But now that you mention that I remember seeing them on the side. Makes me wonder. My halftrack is a Diamond T M3
s/n M3 2705. According to Joe M. my HT was delievered in 1942, Now According to Hunnicuts book Diamond T built 324 T 19's from Jan of 42 to April 42 until the M7 Priest was built. After the T-19's were designated obsolete the rest were converted to M3A1s. I wonder if because the Diamond T chassis was used as motor gun carriage is why it has the old style wrap around turn buckels. So I wonder if they kept using the same chassis after the order was cancelled kept building M3's until they went to the M3A1's

I'm just guessing here. But my HT also came with pedistal lights. the motor gun carriages were we converted to pedistal lights because the concussion would bust out the fender mount lights. My data plate says mine was an M3 not an A1.

By the way when did they start with the pedistal lights and do away with the fender lights?

Don G.

Up date form another site:
i have only seen one other halftrack like that with the idler brace. it was at the littlefield museum in there bone yard. they said it was a 75mm gun motor carriage. i wonder if that was an early style type.
1942 M3 Halftrack Zelda MVPA # 31688
Clark CA-1 Airborne Dozer
Letorneau Model D-4 Airborne Scraper

clintm20
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Re: M3 progress

Post by clintm20 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:44 am

Hi Don,
The other ht was also a Diamond T, M3 35xx, there is a thread on it on the Steel Soliders site by dirt71. His also still has the early front spring setup as well as the early small rear idler spring. I think his was built in Nov-Dec 42. Yours is the first one I've seen with the late idler spring but the early idler turnbuckle. One thing I've noticed on the gun motor carriages is some of them didn't have the 4 slotted, elongated holes on the rear panel that the pintle hitch passes thru. This gives access to the bolt heads in the rear crossmember for the large L shaped reinforcing bracket. My autocar has these 4 slotted holes cut out with a torch to give access to the bolts, like a field mod perhaps. The more halftracks i see the more questions I have. :lol: If yours had these holes cut with a torch it might indicate it was a gmc at first but since you are missing that piece we can't use that clue. One of the guys on here restored a T-19 that was coverted to m3a1 and they left the T-19 serial number intact on the frame so I doubt yours started out as a T-19 but rather standard M3. That is just a guess on my part.
Green Trucks and High Tides Forever

Diamond T M3 Half-track Serial # M32971 USA 4045956
Autocar M3A1 Half-track Serial # M3A1-47825 USA 4053835
Autocar M16A1 Half-track Serial # M15A1-1945 USA 40150662

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Spec4Don
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Re: M3 progress

Post by Spec4Don » Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:42 am

Clint, I'll get some pictures of the front springs and see if they are early or late. I believe my HT went through a rebuild at some point in time because the engine has the threaded freeze plugs instead of the stamped. Also my engine was painted the darker OD green as was the rest of the engine compartment I don't know the color but I would say more of the 50's semi-gloss OD. There was some stenciles on the louvers that said BE 12-55. :?

More questions??

Don G.
1942 M3 Halftrack Zelda MVPA # 31688
Clark CA-1 Airborne Dozer
Letorneau Model D-4 Airborne Scraper

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Re: M3 progress

Post by clintm20 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:55 am

You asked about the demountable headlights. Here is the skinny from Hunnicutt:

The MWO for vehicles already in the field is G102-W34 dated 21 June 43 but this was to modify ONLY the GMC's. I'm guessing yours was retrofiltted at some point which is probably when the the later style (last) idler spring was added.
Green Trucks and High Tides Forever

Diamond T M3 Half-track Serial # M32971 USA 4045956
Autocar M3A1 Half-track Serial # M3A1-47825 USA 4053835
Autocar M16A1 Half-track Serial # M15A1-1945 USA 40150662

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Re: M3 progress

Post by clintm20 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:54 am

Don after studying additional photos I think all the early long frames had the rear idler turnbuckle like yours. If/when it was changed over they added an additional L shaped brace on each side of the rear frame attaching to the rear crossmember. It looks like that is why the oval shaped slots were added to the rear body panel to provide access to the bolt heads without having to remove the entire panel. That is probably why the slots on my autocar m3 are torch cut. When the later style idler turnbuckle was added then that L shaped brace was installed. I can see from your pictures you don't have that and neither did the other one I saw. Must have decided the rear crossmember needed reinforcing without the early turnbuckle to provide extra support. There is one for sale now on this page by 'tankbarb' and you can see the remains of the early idler turnbuckle on the rear crossmember where it was cut off and part of it was left attached. It has the extra L braces added.
Last edited by clintm20 on Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Green Trucks and High Tides Forever

Diamond T M3 Half-track Serial # M32971 USA 4045956
Autocar M3A1 Half-track Serial # M3A1-47825 USA 4053835
Autocar M16A1 Half-track Serial # M15A1-1945 USA 40150662

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Spec4Don
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Re: M3 progress

Post by Spec4Don » Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:16 pm

I checked my front springs and they are the later style springs. I also looked at one of my tracks and it had "Red River Arsenal" molded into it. I also have 2 different styles of idler arms one has 4 holes in it, with 3 zerks in it. The other one has 2 zerks and no holes. More questions, more questions, more questions!!

Don G.
1942 M3 Halftrack Zelda MVPA # 31688
Clark CA-1 Airborne Dozer
Letorneau Model D-4 Airborne Scraper

clintm20
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Re: M3 progress

Post by clintm20 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:00 am

I also have 2 different styles of idler arms one has 4 holes in it, with 3 zerks in it. The other one has 2 zerks and no holes. More questions, more questions, more questions!!
Me too. Don't know what's up with that. The other early one i saw like yours had no zerks at all!
Green Trucks and High Tides Forever

Diamond T M3 Half-track Serial # M32971 USA 4045956
Autocar M3A1 Half-track Serial # M3A1-47825 USA 4053835
Autocar M16A1 Half-track Serial # M15A1-1945 USA 40150662

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tfscobie
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Re: M3 progress

Post by tfscobie » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:57 am

I am restoring an early Diamond T M3 also Serial No. M30967. It has the same turnbuckles but no idler spring, nor holes in the frame for the spring mounting plates. Pain in the butt to get the repro rear armor on too. Good to see that someone else has this set up...thanks for the pics!
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B/1/117/30

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Spec4Don
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Re: M3 progress

Post by Spec4Don » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:10 am

Hey can you post some pictures. That one must of never got retrofited with the springs. I wonder how it got missed?

Don G.
1942 M3 Halftrack Zelda MVPA # 31688
Clark CA-1 Airborne Dozer
Letorneau Model D-4 Airborne Scraper

clintm20
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Re: M3 progress

Post by clintm20 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:19 am

I am restoring an early Diamond T M3 also Serial No. M30967. It has the same turnbuckles but no idler spring, nor holes in the frame for the spring mounting plates. Pain in the butt to get the repro rear armor on too. Good to see that someone else has this set up...thanks for the pics!
So it still has the fixed rear idler? Love to see pictures of that!
Green Trucks and High Tides Forever

Diamond T M3 Half-track Serial # M32971 USA 4045956
Autocar M3A1 Half-track Serial # M3A1-47825 USA 4053835
Autocar M16A1 Half-track Serial # M15A1-1945 USA 40150662

clintm20
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Re: M3 progress

Post by clintm20 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:08 am

This is a shim that was installed when the idler turnbuckle was moved to the side of the frame on M3 series?

Image
Green Trucks and High Tides Forever

Diamond T M3 Half-track Serial # M32971 USA 4045956
Autocar M3A1 Half-track Serial # M3A1-47825 USA 4053835
Autocar M16A1 Half-track Serial # M15A1-1945 USA 40150662

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Spec4Don
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Re: M3 progress

Post by Spec4Don » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:27 pm

That would make sense. What do you bet that they changed the idler arm configuration after some poor sap had to change it out the first time with the armor on :shock: That would be a real pain. Thats why I've decided take mine off and clean it all up to make it easier if I have to do it while the armor is on. :mrgreen:

Don G.
1942 M3 Halftrack Zelda MVPA # 31688
Clark CA-1 Airborne Dozer
Letorneau Model D-4 Airborne Scraper

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tfscobie
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Re: M3 progress

Post by tfscobie » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:04 pm

clintm20 wrote:
I am restoring an early Diamond T M3 also Serial No. M30967. It has the same turnbuckles but no idler spring, nor holes in the frame for the spring mounting plates. Pain in the butt to get the repro rear armor on too. Good to see that someone else has this set up...thanks for the pics!
So it still has the fixed rear idler? Love to see pictures of that!
Sorry for the delay...I'll get something else posted when I get back up to the shop. It's still youth hockey season here in God's Country.
Image
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B/1/117/30

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Spec4Don
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Re: M3 progress

Post by Spec4Don » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:37 pm

Made a little more progress. Doing a lot work but don't seem to be making any big strides :? Been rebuilding a hydrovac. Ran into some descrepancies between the kit, the book. I found a TM online TM 9-1827b-1-May of 1944. Cleared up a number of issues. Anyway I've got some more screws to replace rusty ones.

Finally got the Idlers and sprockets back from the sandblaster. Took the drums down to the local truck shop and got them turned. Finished rebuilding the brakes.

Heres some shots:

Image

Image

Image

Still moving forward.

Don G.
1942 M3 Halftrack Zelda MVPA # 31688
Clark CA-1 Airborne Dozer
Letorneau Model D-4 Airborne Scraper


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