ex-Canadian Army Indian 640 - from newbie

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Alex Schmidt
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Re: ex-Canadian Army Indian 640 - from newbie

Post by Alex Schmidt » Wed May 03, 2017 5:02 am

Hello Denis,

We already met on the Maple Leaf forum, awhile ago! great to see you found the box!!!

I found out my 640 is definetively from a British contract of 4 pieces, probably the last ones ever made!

Regarding the weight and speed of the 640 versus the WLA, I don't believe for one moment the WLA is faster, 640 should be 20 mph faster then a WLA, there has been so much talk about Indians in the past, and all models kept being mixed up, also from the Hatfield book, who made completely wrong assumptions.

This is a legacy we have to deal with, but even my 741 was not much slower then a WLA, and that 741 is somewhat lighter.

The reason there are not many 640's left is that they were all raced to death after the war, if you compare the inlet valve on a 640 with a WLA, you will see why!
There was also a racing version, the 648, only a hundred made? (don't have my literature here)

But when mine is ready, I'll happily race any WLA to prove my point.

Cheers,

Alex
1910 P&M R.F.C. mtrcycle
1939 White 704 S 5 ton
1940 Matchless G3
1940 Norton Big 4
1941 FordGP #16601
1943 G.E. 75mm Pack How.
1943 Welbike Parascooter
1944 Cushman Parascooter
1944 Cooper Parascooter prototype
1944 DKW RT 125 N.a.


Eldo
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Re: ex-Canadian Army Indian 640 - from newbie

Post by Eldo » Wed May 03, 2017 8:35 am

Hi Alex,
I remember! You had mentioned you thought yours was from a British contact but I'm glad you've learned that that is definitely the case. All things Indian seem to be a puzzle until some paperwork is found. You definitely have something interesting there! Any further progress on it? It looked pretty far along from the pics you'd posted.
I agree and don't believe for a second that the 640 was slower than a WLA.

There are several reasons why there are far fewer 640s. They were used for racing as you said. There were also far fewer made (made only a few thousand). Canada received some and liked them a lot but Indian was having trouble supplying spare parts for them (possibly due to 741 production) so they eventually returned them and bought more WLAs and moved more towards British supplied bikes as the war went on.

Also, the US Army itself objected to the placement of the generator on the 640 because it was low on the frame just behind the front wheel, and because the low mounted rear brake lever meant that all the linkages were very low to the ground and susceptible to damage.
Indian was working on fixing these issues and I have a couple of photos of 643/644 prototypes clearly showing the solutions.

I think the big base racers were made in two batches in 1939 and in 1948. The number I saw was 25 total with 40-50 engines being made.
1940 Indian Model 640-B Canadian Army
1941 Indian Model 841

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Alex Schmidt
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Re: ex-Canadian Army Indian 640 - from newbie

Post by Alex Schmidt » Wed May 03, 2017 12:50 pm

Yes, I found that I already had the contract details, but overlooked it in the past, here it is:

Image

Note the 8 is the catalog reference number and not the amount, the amount can be seen at the left, where the C numbers are listed, C4782629-C4782632, 4 pieces.

Now I have other info that that same contract S.M 2164 (SM= Supply Mechanical) Had framenumbers 6404445 and 6404446, mine is 6404443, so the two bikes are missing in that contract info, 6404443 and 6404444. (see below)

Image

If you pm me your email, I might have had it, but lost a lot in a recent pc crash, I'll send you more documents I have on 639's, and US army specifications.

Very interested in pictures of 643's and 644's, mine is really a 642, as one of the last ones built I believe.

I am still working on mine, have most parts ready for painting, and all cad plating done, buying NOS stuff for the engine rebuild now.

Cheers,

Alex
1910 P&M R.F.C. mtrcycle
1939 White 704 S 5 ton
1940 Matchless G3
1940 Norton Big 4
1941 FordGP #16601
1943 G.E. 75mm Pack How.
1943 Welbike Parascooter
1944 Cushman Parascooter
1944 Cooper Parascooter prototype
1944 DKW RT 125 N.a.

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John Neuenburg
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Re: ex-Canadian Army Indian 640 - from newbie

Post by John Neuenburg » Sun May 07, 2017 11:09 am

My guess is the 640 is faster than the WLA/WLC. If any Harley guys in California want to race, let me know. Mine seems quick but I am no vintage bike expert. I am quite sure there are no Bonneville kit parts in my engine because the compression is low and the carb venturi is the standard, small one. But unless one sees the cams and pistons in an engine or takes a NOS engine out of the crate, one never really knows what some owner did to it. US race bikes for over 40 years were all H-D or Indian 45s.

The other reason few intact 640s exist is many were converted to look like 1941 Sport Scouts, arguably the best looking Indian because of the full skirt fenders with the clean, 1940-type rigid frame compared to the plunger suspension frame on the civvy 42. The lighter 1941 Sport Scout was favored by some, and the 40 which was what the military bike was made from was lighter than that.

45 Scouts were sometimes stroked and bored to 57 inch and with a Bonneville kit I heard they could beat any hopped-up Chief. The 45 has a larger valve-to-displacement ratio than the big twins plus a Y intake instead of a T. Horsepower in a gas engine comes from getting more air in and out, and rpm. Less weight helps too.
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