CJ Hybridized

1945 - 196*, Willys CJ series, questions, discussions, regarding anything related to the post war jeep.®
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cpiunno
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CJ Hybridized

Post by cpiunno » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:07 am

I'm in the process of a frame off restoration of a 1961 CJ5 and as I'm rebuilding components, such as the steering knuckle, I'm noticing that these are not parts from a 1961 CJ5. For example the steering knuckle has no .058" boss on the bottom for the kingpin. Then I notice the engine block is for an L head which has been converted to be used with an F head: the intake valves have been replaced with a guide for the push rods. Well now I'm questioning everything. I'm having a hard time identifying which components are from a 1960 CJ5, and which are from an earlier year. And if from an earlier year, which year and model? I would need to know this so I can get the correct replacement parts, like leaf springs. For example the frame, what year is it from? This is my first jeep so I'm not familiar with the subtle differences between the years. I bought all new CJ5 leaf springs and they are about an inch shorter in length than the old ones I took off the jeep. This makes me think I do not have a 1961 CJ5 frame. See the attached images.
ss20160818_095212.jpg
Frame2
ss20160818_095212.jpg (38.18 KiB) Viewed 1698 times
ss20160818_095307.jpg
Frame1
ss20160818_095307.jpg (35.22 KiB) Viewed 1698 times
-Carmen P.
-Denver, CO.
-1961 CJ-5.
-Friend.


Bruce W
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Re: CJ Hybridized

Post by Bruce W » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:55 pm

I'm no expert on CJ5's (or anything else for that matter), but that does look like a CJ5 frame to me. Mostly, the front crossmember and grille mount, are at least definitely not flatfender. Your new springs may be shorter than the old ones because the old ones don't have as much arch (shortest distance between two points is a straight line, and all).
What I want to see, is that block. BW
G Trp 2nd Sqdrn 3d Armored Cavalry Ft. Lewis 1970-71. 43GPW(Sarge?) 47CJ2A(Teddy) 47CJ2A(Rusty) 47CJ2A(Zak) 48CJ2A(Lefty) 48CJ2A(Uncle Linden) 53CJ3B(Bulldog) 88XJ(Pluto) NE CO

gearhead
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Re: CJ Hybridized

Post by gearhead » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:28 pm

Definitely a CJ 5 frame.
Willys sold a conversion kit for flatheads to convert them to F heads.
Who knows when the engine was swapped out, lot happens in 55 + years.
Welcome and where are you located? As I have a large pile of early CJ parts.

Ed S :)
54 CJ-3A/B
56 DJ-3A for sale
45 GPW 271022, USMC 46 CJ-2A 2WD"gasser"
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cpiunno
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Re: CJ Hybridized

Post by cpiunno » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:53 am

Thank you for the quick replies. I am in Denver, CO. I measured the distances between the eyelets on the springs I bought, and they are definitely shorter than they are supposed to be. For example, the rear are advertised as 46 1/16", but the ones I received are only 44". So this explains why they do not look right. The shop is going back to the manufacturer of the part to find out why it is out of spec.
-Carmen P.
-Denver, CO.
-1961 CJ-5.
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Joe Gopan
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Re: CJ Hybridized

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:03 am

Ans there are two types of CJ-5 Springs, Early Pre 57 are set up for threaded bushings on the shackle end, later have silent Bloc Bushings in shackle end. The Frame Brackets for the shackle end will not be threaded.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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cpiunno
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Re: CJ Hybridized

Post by cpiunno » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:26 am

Do you think using the 44" springs on this frame, that previously had 46" springs, is possible? This will essentially decrease wheelbase by about an inch. Can the propeller shaft accommodate this change? I only ask because I'd prefer not to have to ship these back and buy new ones.
-Carmen P.
-Denver, CO.
-1961 CJ-5.
-Friend.

Bruce W
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Re: CJ Hybridized

Post by Bruce W » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:24 pm

Could they be flatfender springs? They would be shorter than CJ5 springs, but I don't have the lengths handy right now. If they are, I may be able to save you from shipping them back. BW
G Trp 2nd Sqdrn 3d Armored Cavalry Ft. Lewis 1970-71. 43GPW(Sarge?) 47CJ2A(Teddy) 47CJ2A(Rusty) 47CJ2A(Zak) 48CJ2A(Lefty) 48CJ2A(Uncle Linden) 53CJ3B(Bulldog) 88XJ(Pluto) NE CO

Joe Gopan
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Re: CJ Hybridized

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:46 pm

SPRING LENGTHS (JEEP FACTORY SPEC)
CJ-2A, CJ-3A Springs----Front 36 1/4"----Rear 42"
CJ-5, M-38A Springs-----Front 39 5/8"----Rear 46 1/8"

It appears that there is a miscommunication between buyer and seller. No CJ Jeeps of the 45-71 era CJ's have 44" Rear springs.(Nor Do Trucks or Wagons) Ask for 1955 thru 1971 CJ-5 Springs and you will get the correct springs. Check the front brackets of the front springs and rear brackets of rear springs to see if they are smooth or threaded.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

cpiunno
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Re: CJ Hybridized

Post by cpiunno » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:15 am

My brackets are smooth. I have a call into the supplier. I'll let you know what comes of it. Thank you for the help.
-Carmen P.
-Denver, CO.
-1961 CJ-5.
-Friend.

Joe Gopan
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Re: CJ Hybridized

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:53 am

You need the later silent block side plate kit that has the rubber bushings with side plates and 7/16" x 20 NF X 3" Bolts. your chassis is late 56 thru 71.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

Chuck W.
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Re: CJ Hybridized

Post by Chuck W. » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:56 am

Then I notice the engine block is for an L head which has been converted to be used with an F head
I am sure you are aware that the F head and L head blocks are very similar in appearance. If your block is truly an L-head, it will have the two intake ports in the side of the block.

L-head block:
Image

F-head block:
Image

cpiunno
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Re: CJ Hybridized

Post by cpiunno » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:35 am

My block is an L head converted to be used with an F head. See my other post, I posted some pictures!
-Carmen P.
-Denver, CO.
-1961 CJ-5.
-Friend.

cpiunno
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Re: CJ Hybridized

Post by cpiunno » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:46 am

The manufacturer got back to me with the official measurements for the leaf springs. And Mike with Kaiser Willys called around to a few different suppliers and manufacturers and they all came back with the same information. Stock CJ5 springs are 38" front and 44" inch rear. So back to my original concern, the springs are all 2" shorter than "factory spec", but this is normal for a brand new leaf spring.
-Carmen P.
-Denver, CO.
-1961 CJ-5.
-Friend.

Joe Gopan
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Re: CJ Hybridized

Post by Joe Gopan » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:25 pm

There is no such thing as a 38" Front and 44" rear on any CJ-5 Universal Jeep (Including M-38A1) from 1955 through 1971. Also none of the other 4 Cylinder MB, CJ-2A, CJ-3A and CJ-3B from WWII thru the 60's.
Try another dealer.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO


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