Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer

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Chuck Lutz
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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:19 am

Here is a pic:
Bell Crank and Bolt.jpg
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GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947


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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer

Post by Bill H. » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:24 pm

Outstanding Chuck! Thanks.
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"Each shall seek his own kind, in other words, a bird may love a fish but where would they build a home together?" Tevye, Fiddler on the Roof

1952 Dunbar Kapple M100
1953 Willys M38A1
1962 AMC M422A1
1965 Stevens M416B1 X 2
1967 Kaiser M715

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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer

Post by Jon » Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:35 pm

You do realize that all these parts are drawn from my Willys trailer and are available through me. If you look at the photo attached , the parts below the Original Handle are made by me and that includes the J-bolt and pivot plate

If you look at this photo the plate is standard for the pivot bolt.
Image

And on the other side you should have this......
Image
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1944 GPW195611 20531384 ACM-2 17781
1942 MBT 19433W

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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer

Post by zepher11 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:49 pm

Thank you everyone! So now that I know that the little square plate is stock for the bell crank, I found the problem. The bolt is just too short. I don't recall where I received it from:

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Also, received a little something something on my doorstep:

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As with every reproduction part I ever have received, I have to modify it as it was advertised with one rope hook and to use as a front panel one would need to buy an extra hook. Well, glad I wasn't replacing the front panel and ordered an extra hook. Now I need to do a little grinding to erase a hook or two:

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Jon, I didn't realize you sold any parts after all this time. Nice work!
Zeph

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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer

Post by zepher11 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:36 pm

I marked the center line on the reproduction rear panel, and it appears that even if this was an actual front panel, the rope hooks still wouldn't have been in the right place. Not surprising:

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So, it appears that I'm not losing it as I went back to my receipt about the need to purchase a second hook if one wanted to make this "rear panel" a front panel. Just a case of the manufacturer of the repo part as well as the vendor having no idea of what they are doing...or not caring. At least I'm not losing it like I thought I was. At least I saved the $15 in not ordering a third hook. I wonder how many folks order a third hook?:

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The usual drill. Out with the new:

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And, in with the old:

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I used the original hook that has all of the outer spot weld marks like the others on the trailer:

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I decided to weld from the inside to maintain the spot weld pattern like the other hooks:

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I do need a little help. Can anyone tell me if there is a tab that the lower part of the rear panel would be spot welded to? I can tell the repo panel will not reach all the way down to the floor of the trailer when it is aligned with the upper tubes. Maybe a tab along the length of the bottom kinda like this?:

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Here is another photo of the tabs that I am speaking about where the front a rear panels would be spot welded:

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I appreciate the assistance....
Zeph

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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer

Post by zepher11 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:10 pm

Worked on some test fitting of the panel. It came pre-warped, so it's tough to get it straight and aligned. Not as bad as I thought, it is only between 1/4" and 3/8" short in reaching the floor. Not too bad. I was originally thinking it was going to be about 1/2":

Image

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Looks like I will need to add some metal as the repo panel. It is a little short on the 45 degree slope of the trailer. This is where the panel would be welded to the the metal tab, so definitely need to add some metal here to achieve a proper area for welding. The other side is about the same and will need a little work as well:

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I also tackled the extra metal that was added when the tailgate modification was completed back in the day. The angle iron on the sides were particularly difficult to remove without messing anything up:

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Little rusty under there:

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All the excess metal is now removed. Now I just need to clean it up a bit and figure out how to make the tabs to install the repo panel:

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I have a question for those in the know. I have noticed that the reflector housings for the 1/4 ton trailers are not round. They are like the one on the right side in the photo below. Anyone know where I could get some housings that aren't round like the one on the right? I would like to locate some. The one on the right is the only one I have:

Image

Thanks!
Zeph

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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer

Post by macaddict23 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:18 pm

Hi John,

More info on trailer reflectors: http://jeepdraw.com/TRAILER_PART_COLOURS.htm

You'll need the Corcoran Browns: https://www.vintagejeeps.com/p-1128-ref ... 06-cb.aspx

Dexter
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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer

Post by zepher11 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:08 am

Thanks Dexter!

So, if I understand correctly, I would need the lenses (Grotelite No. 100) that are in the four round reflector bases I have shown on the left in my photo above. Get a set of reflectors from Ron shown in your link...remove the tiger eye style lens from Ron's bases and insert the four Grotelite lenses I remove from the CB bases on the left in my photo?

I can't read the stamping on Ron's reflector bases in the link with the "Tiger" style lens. Just want to make sure Ron's bases do not have Tiger Eye stamped on it like the round ones I have in the photo above. Jeep Draw indicates the base should be stamped for the Grotelite No. 100's. Do you know what Ron's bases have stamped on them in the link you posted? If I need the Grotelite No. 100 lenses I'm pretty sure I don't want the bases to say "Tiger Eye" correct?

It's all so confusing. :lol: If I could read what Ron's bases have stamped on them it would be more clear to me I'm sure.
Zeph

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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer

Post by macaddict23 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:36 am

John,

To add to the confusion, I just checked two of my unrestored MBTs and here's what I found:

November 42 MBT: Round Arrowlite No. 217 bezels with Grotelite No. 12 reflectors
September 43 MBT: Round Yankee Reflex bezels with No. 14 reflectors

Chuck (Lutz), what do you think?

Dexter
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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer

Post by zepher11 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:21 am

macaddict23 wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:36 am
John,

To add to the confusion, I just checked two of my unrestored MBTs and here's what I found:

November 42 MBT: Round Arrowlite No. 217 bezels with Grotelite No. 12 reflectors
September 43 MBT: Round Yankee Reflex bezels with No. 14 reflectors

Chuck (Lutz), what do you think?

Dexter
Well, at least I know they should be round. In looking at older photos, I kept thinking I saw the oval reflector bases installed, or it appeared that way to me on some old photos of MBT's. May have been shadows. This is a March 1943 MBT I'm working on.

I found a better view of the CB base Ron sells. I think these would work by replacing the lenses: with the Grotelite lenses I have. The bases do not say Grotelite that I can see, but they do have No. 100 stamped on them:
MBT 25.JPG
MBT 25.JPG (59.77 KiB) Viewed 1917 times
Zeph

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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer

Post by Chuck Lutz » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:45 am

Since the level of your restos is so high...you should hold out for the CORRECT round CB bezels and ORIGINAL inserts with "GROTELITE" at the top and "NO.100" at the bottom. I have many WWII pics of trailers but none have the oval bezels; they are ALL the round type.

Richard Grace has been a source of them for years, but occasionally a set of the roadside markers in a fold-up metal case will show up on ebay and have the exact inserts you need. Most are "close but no balloon" but once you know what to look for, you may get lucky...flea markets are another place to find them.

Your MBT is too early to consider any YANKEE marked parts.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer

Post by Bill H. » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:28 am

The round CB bezels and GROTELITE No 100 (only) no other lens markings such as SAE, is correct for your trailer. PM me, I "might" know where some lenses are ;)
Bill H.

"Each shall seek his own kind, in other words, a bird may love a fish but where would they build a home together?" Tevye, Fiddler on the Roof

1952 Dunbar Kapple M100
1953 Willys M38A1
1962 AMC M422A1
1965 Stevens M416B1 X 2
1967 Kaiser M715

2 Timothy 3:1-5

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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer

Post by Jon » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:08 am

Image

And don't forget the lead washers......

Image

From http://jeepdraw.com/TRAILER_PART_COLOURS.htm

JR
Jon Rogers
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http://jeepdraw.com JeepDraw Home Page & Drawings
Parts Colours Page http://jeepdraw.com/PART_COLOURS.htm
1944 GPW195611 20531384 ACM-2 17781
1942 MBT 19433W

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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer

Post by zepher11 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:52 pm

Thanks Chuck, Bill and Jon. I popped the lenses out that I had stuck in the the Tiger Ey round bases previously and took a photo a minute ago. I have four of these I bought for this project some time ago:

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Now I need to locate the bases to stick these four lenses into. I believe the bases I need are the ones that Dexter linked from Ron's site. Think I will order those this evening. Plus I will need to get the lead washers as well, but I don't see that Ron lists those.

Anyway, since it was like 100 degrees and humid today, I figured it would be a good day to grind and weld out in the shop...NOT. I did it anyway... 8)

Since all of the original tabs that were used to weld the rear panel are long gone, I had to reestablish those. I elected to upgrade a little with thicker stock as the trailer sides are getting a bit thin from the welding of the tailgate structure and the subsequent grinding. I wanted to add a little more structure and support. Here is the lower tab going in:

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This is where the welding was a bit tedious as the metal is really thin on the trailer side edges:

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A lot of welding required for the tabs:

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Tabs all welded in and ready for clean up:

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I got a little punchy from the heat. Used a little weld through primer between the sections:

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Test fitting again. With a little hammering and better alignment, I was able to avoid having to weld extra metal to the panel 45 degree areas like I originally thought:

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Red hot. This repo metal is not easy to weld. I much prefer the WWII steel for welding:

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Taking a little break:

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My extended vice grip wouldn't reach down to the bottom for welding...about an inch too short. With the pre-warped panel, I had to figure out another way. All finished!:

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Even after sweeping up a couple of times, there was still a lot of metal grindings all over. Ran out of gas and will get to the clean up next weekend:

Image

Not sure how they sealed these trailers to allow them to float with 500 lbs. of cargo in them. When one really looks these trailers over, it is pretty impressive the craftsmanship in putting the tubs together.

Here's a little video I made of the panel ready to be installed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReoHOAyGbzA

By the way. Thanks for the JeepDraw diagram Jon! Appreciate the service.
Zeph

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'41 Dodge WC16 Restoration Thread: CLICK HERE!

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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer

Post by Whiskey7 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:41 am

Zeph, great work! I'm following along closely. Are you on the FB group too? Have finished stripping our trailer but it will be a few months before we start the rebuild as we have a lot of parts to get sandblasted and a lot to buy too. Thanks for all the great pics!
Eric

Did you ever find a source for the correct chains btw?


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