Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer
- zepher11
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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer
Fitted the floor to the frame yesterday afternoon. Fits pretty good with some tweaks. The floor si awfully bowed, so it will be a lot of work to get it to sit flush. I would prefer to fit it to the tub first then to the frame, but then worried that it would not then sit flush. This cause the frame to be out of square.
The frame is like a slinky when not supported with the welded tub on it as there is no support to keep it square. Therefore, I prefer to have the floor flat to the frame first...plus I received my front panel replacement. Not sure how to make it all go back together yet so that the frame is straight...maybe it doesn't matter and I'm over thinking it. Likely will be very difficult if not impossible to keep the frame straight. Fitting floor to frame:
Hat channel fits well:
Here's a nice bow in the middle now that the sides of the floor are flat to the frame:
Punched some holes for plug welding. Now if I can figure it out:
The frame is like a slinky when not supported with the welded tub on it as there is no support to keep it square. Therefore, I prefer to have the floor flat to the frame first...plus I received my front panel replacement. Not sure how to make it all go back together yet so that the frame is straight...maybe it doesn't matter and I'm over thinking it. Likely will be very difficult if not impossible to keep the frame straight. Fitting floor to frame:
Hat channel fits well:
Here's a nice bow in the middle now that the sides of the floor are flat to the frame:
Punched some holes for plug welding. Now if I can figure it out:
- zepher11
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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer
Continued dinking around with the MBT today. I sandblasted the tub early this morning while it was cool, and then painted all the welding areas with weld through primer. Then marked the depth of the floor and clamped in some blocks to try and keep the tub from sliding down too far:
Had to hulk the tub up onto the frame. Then tried to get some weight on the floor to seat it to the frame before tacking the floor to the tub:
Floor all tacked in ready for final welding:
Had to re-weld the rear panel lower section again as well as the floor to the bedsides:
Lower part of the rear panel all welded and cleaned up as well as the floor to bedside welds:
Pretty happy with the result of the fit of the floor. Fits fairly flush along the bedsides:
Now that the floor is all welded in, I elected to cut out the front panel and get it ready for the replacement panel:
Front panel fitted and ready for welding:
Hopefully, I can get the rear panel all welded in and then figure out how to get the frame back in there.
Had to hulk the tub up onto the frame. Then tried to get some weight on the floor to seat it to the frame before tacking the floor to the tub:
Floor all tacked in ready for final welding:
Had to re-weld the rear panel lower section again as well as the floor to the bedsides:
Lower part of the rear panel all welded and cleaned up as well as the floor to bedside welds:
Pretty happy with the result of the fit of the floor. Fits fairly flush along the bedsides:
Now that the floor is all welded in, I elected to cut out the front panel and get it ready for the replacement panel:
Front panel fitted and ready for welding:
Hopefully, I can get the rear panel all welded in and then figure out how to get the frame back in there.
- Greencom
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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer
Great work, very professional. Keep the pics coming!
- zepher11
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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer
Thank you! Will do. It's nice to look back and see what has been accomplished. And, hopefully, some of this thread may help someone down the road.
Cheers,
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer
We did not replace the floor or other panels on my trailer, just sandblasted it after everything was stripped off it and also sanded. When it came time to paint the tub assembly, we used Red Oxide with 10% Zylene and shot it in the morning before the paint or the tub got HOT. There were several places where we could see drips on the exterior where the tub/floor seams were not "watertight" or paint-tight for that matter. In the afternoon when it had several hours of drying time, we put on a second coat rather heavily which not only solved the orange-peel on the floor but eliminated MOST of the drips/runs. After finishing up the priming all over, the next day we did two coats to 33070 with I think maybe 20% Zylene? The first coat on the inside showed almost NO drips by then and we did another coat in the early afternoon....this time there were ZERO drips so it appeared that all that paint got into the seams and made the tub wall/floor assembly watertight.
So...if you intend on ever doing some creek or small stream fording and want your gear in the trailer to stay DRY, don't be afraid to use two coats of primer and two coats of OD and then be prepared to let it sit for 4-6 weeks until that paint has hardened and cured completely before messing with it. When you can press your thumbnail on the finished paint job and not leave an indent in it then it is cured.
Like the jeep...trying to work on it before the paint has cured will only damage the paint job so when you are done...try to let it cure before assembling all the bolt-ons.
So...if you intend on ever doing some creek or small stream fording and want your gear in the trailer to stay DRY, don't be afraid to use two coats of primer and two coats of OD and then be prepared to let it sit for 4-6 weeks until that paint has hardened and cured completely before messing with it. When you can press your thumbnail on the finished paint job and not leave an indent in it then it is cured.
Like the jeep...trying to work on it before the paint has cured will only damage the paint job so when you are done...try to let it cure before assembling all the bolt-ons.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
- zepher11
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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer
Thanks Chuck. That's interesting. The trailer required an inordinate amount of grinding to remove the panels. It was like a the GPW floor on my project that one could just drill out the spot weld. I had to literally grind the entire strip of metal. Every square millimeter. That's why I thought it had some sort of seam sealer to seal all of the seams. Anyway, I'm happy to have all that grinding done. The only metal that was left of the strips was powder.
Today, I buttoned most everything up and installed the tub back onto the frame. Another part of the project that I'm happy I'm past. Completed the welds for the front panel today:
Lots of grinding:
Fitted the tub back to it's good friend the frame. Hammered the tub forward to seat it against the angle iron. Actually pretty square and it fit well:
With the original style tabs, it fits and is sealed pretty decent. i don't think this one will ever float, however:
Made the front welds first. Then tacked the floor to the frame in the back while it was upside down. I flipped the whole thing over and then completed the floor and bedside welds:
Some of the bottom welds:
All of the welds are completed with the exception of the four corner welds. I'll save for next weekend. There are some gaping holes I will need to deal with and some very thin metal in that area. Should be able to mop those up next weekend and then finish the final clean up/blasting and get this thing in primer. That is if it doesn't rain:
Today, I buttoned most everything up and installed the tub back onto the frame. Another part of the project that I'm happy I'm past. Completed the welds for the front panel today:
Lots of grinding:
Fitted the tub back to it's good friend the frame. Hammered the tub forward to seat it against the angle iron. Actually pretty square and it fit well:
With the original style tabs, it fits and is sealed pretty decent. i don't think this one will ever float, however:
Made the front welds first. Then tacked the floor to the frame in the back while it was upside down. I flipped the whole thing over and then completed the floor and bedside welds:
Some of the bottom welds:
All of the welds are completed with the exception of the four corner welds. I'll save for next weekend. There are some gaping holes I will need to deal with and some very thin metal in that area. Should be able to mop those up next weekend and then finish the final clean up/blasting and get this thing in primer. That is if it doesn't rain:
Last edited by zepher11 on Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer
Hello Zeph,
Fantastic work!
Very good documentation of the whole restoration process. It really helps a lot.
I have an MBT that needs a new floor and thanks to you I think I know what to do now.
I did go through your thread a couple of times and I wonder: If you had to do this one more time, would you do it in the same way?
From what I learned from you it looks like the best way to proceed is to start by removing the tub of the frame. There are a lot of tack welds to remove but if there is no interest in keeping the floor intact the process should not be that long (I did not do it so 'not long' may be an understatement). One has to take care of the tack welds on the sides but the floor can be cut out like what one sees on your video.
The spot welds that connect the floor to the side walls of the tub can be taken care of after the tub is removed.
Once the old floor is gone, a new floor can be spot welded in and the finalized tub can be connected to the frame by using the tack welds in the usual places. Am I correct?
Sorry, if this does not contribute to your thread. Send me a PM and I will remove my post.
Greetings
Hans
Fantastic work!
Very good documentation of the whole restoration process. It really helps a lot.
I have an MBT that needs a new floor and thanks to you I think I know what to do now.
I did go through your thread a couple of times and I wonder: If you had to do this one more time, would you do it in the same way?
From what I learned from you it looks like the best way to proceed is to start by removing the tub of the frame. There are a lot of tack welds to remove but if there is no interest in keeping the floor intact the process should not be that long (I did not do it so 'not long' may be an understatement). One has to take care of the tack welds on the sides but the floor can be cut out like what one sees on your video.
The spot welds that connect the floor to the side walls of the tub can be taken care of after the tub is removed.
Once the old floor is gone, a new floor can be spot welded in and the finalized tub can be connected to the frame by using the tack welds in the usual places. Am I correct?
Sorry, if this does not contribute to your thread. Send me a PM and I will remove my post.
Greetings
Hans
Living in Belgium
Speedometer repair service
MB 379881
GPW 253827
Speedometer repair service
MB 379881
GPW 253827
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer
Rain on Friday!
Grind and prime the next few days and you should be safe from the Rust Monster until you can finish the prime/paint cycle and complete assembly.
Good Luck, your work is exemplary...
Grind and prime the next few days and you should be safe from the Rust Monster until you can finish the prime/paint cycle and complete assembly.
Good Luck, your work is exemplary...
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
- zepher11
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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer
Yes, I would love to work on a project during the week, but I never have due to my work...unless I have the day off that is. I'm mostly a Saturday warrior and some Sundays.Chuck Lutz wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:03 pmRain on Friday!
Grind and prime the next few days and you should be safe from the Rust Monster until you can finish the prime/paint cycle and complete assembly.
Good Luck, your work is exemplary...
Thank you for the weld diagram. I followed it to the letter. In most instances, it wasn't too difficult to see the old weld areas.
Just checked the weather report again. Yesterday it showed rain on Friday and Sunday with a little break on Saturday. Today it shows rain showers on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Maybe it will change again. We'll see.
- zepher11
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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer
Kinda stuck on this project as rain off and on this weekend plus I took a couple of trucks to a Veterans Day parade yesterday. However, I did get a chance today to erase the incorrect MD Juan rope hooks and reapply. Cutting the new ones off:
The originals have five spot welds. The MD Juan hooks have two plug welds:
The MD Juan hooks are not only not in the correct location, but they are too low as well compared to the original location:
Marked the correct locations and drilled two holes to plug weld the original rope hooks on. From the outside they will look like the originals by retaining the five spot weld marks:
All welded on:
I also finished the last three welds I couldn't get to last weekend on the tub, so the tub is all welded back together now. I now just need a weekend where I can sandblast the tub to get it ready for primer. Based on the weather report, it may be a few weeks.
Here's a view of the floor all welded in with all of the original welds replaced:
The originals have five spot welds. The MD Juan hooks have two plug welds:
The MD Juan hooks are not only not in the correct location, but they are too low as well compared to the original location:
Marked the correct locations and drilled two holes to plug weld the original rope hooks on. From the outside they will look like the originals by retaining the five spot weld marks:
All welded on:
I also finished the last three welds I couldn't get to last weekend on the tub, so the tub is all welded back together now. I now just need a weekend where I can sandblast the tub to get it ready for primer. Based on the weather report, it may be a few weeks.
Here's a view of the floor all welded in with all of the original welds replaced:
- FJ.Janssen
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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer
Hello Zeph,
That's looking really nice!
You're doing a really nice job on getting it restored as new.
Question, did you find that the tub was welded to the floor over the whole length to get it water tight?
I'm meaning not on the inside, but on the heads where the 2 flanges meet.
I have not clue if that should be original or not, just found it on my trailer.
Regards
Frank
That's looking really nice!
You're doing a really nice job on getting it restored as new.
Question, did you find that the tub was welded to the floor over the whole length to get it water tight?
I'm meaning not on the inside, but on the heads where the 2 flanges meet.
I have not clue if that should be original or not, just found it on my trailer.
Regards
Frank
1943 Dodge WC54- 81643667 (sold)
1942 Willy's MB - MB130887
1945 Studebaker Weasel M29C-6672 (body number)
Polynorm 1/4Te trailer (sold)
1945? 1/4Te trailer
Ben Hur 1Te trailer
Onan OTC 33-B
1939 DKW NZ250
1942 Willy's MB - MB130887
1945 Studebaker Weasel M29C-6672 (body number)
Polynorm 1/4Te trailer (sold)
1945? 1/4Te trailer
Ben Hur 1Te trailer
Onan OTC 33-B
1939 DKW NZ250
- zepher11
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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer
Thank you Frank!FJ.Janssen wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:06 pmHello Zeph,
That's looking really nice!
You're doing a really nice job on getting it restored as new.
Question, did you find that the tub was welded to the floor over the whole length to get it water tight?
I'm meaning not on the inside, but on the heads where the 2 flanges meet.
I have not clue if that should be original or not, just found it on my trailer.
Regards
Frank
You know, the floor to bedside mating surfaces appeared to be spot welded at first, but there was some type of sealer that held the two mating surfaces together and kept it water tight. I don't think it was a weld along the entire length. I could not just grind the spot welds and separate the two mating surfaces. I had to literally grind the entire floor panel lip where it met the bedside into powder. There was no saving any of the floor panel lip. It was a lot of work!
Does it appear that way to you on your trailer as well that there is some type of sealer? Likely some really good stuff that they used back in the day. Outlawed today I suppose like lead paint.
- FJ.Janssen
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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer
Hello Zeph,
I was lucky enough that there was some minor rust in between the plates which already made some of the spotwelds loose.
The bed sides will be not too bad to weld back to the (new) floor later on.
During the disassembly i did not found any remains of sealant.
Seems they had multiple ways of sealing the bottom floor?
Take care with the old stuff, when it works well, most of the time it isn't good for your health
Looking forward to the rest of the resto!
Regards
Frank
I was lucky enough that there was some minor rust in between the plates which already made some of the spotwelds loose.
The bed sides will be not too bad to weld back to the (new) floor later on.
During the disassembly i did not found any remains of sealant.
Seems they had multiple ways of sealing the bottom floor?
Take care with the old stuff, when it works well, most of the time it isn't good for your health
Looking forward to the rest of the resto!
Regards
Frank
1943 Dodge WC54- 81643667 (sold)
1942 Willy's MB - MB130887
1945 Studebaker Weasel M29C-6672 (body number)
Polynorm 1/4Te trailer (sold)
1945? 1/4Te trailer
Ben Hur 1Te trailer
Onan OTC 33-B
1939 DKW NZ250
1942 Willy's MB - MB130887
1945 Studebaker Weasel M29C-6672 (body number)
Polynorm 1/4Te trailer (sold)
1945? 1/4Te trailer
Ben Hur 1Te trailer
Onan OTC 33-B
1939 DKW NZ250
- zepher11
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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer
Yes, I wear a mask when grinding that old stuff. Maybe it was paint that sealed it up well. Really not certain why it appeared to be glued together. One would have thought the heat from grinding would have loosened it, but that was not the case. My MBT did go through a rebuild in Salinas, Ca about a year and a half after it was produced. Maybe they did something there that sealed it?
Good luck with your project!
Good luck with your project!
- zepher11
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Re: Zeph's 1943 Willys MBT Trailer
Weird question if anyone can answer. If I lift the closest corner as shown in the photo below, I can lift it about 3/8's of an inch before the other three corners lift off the saw horses. This is all welded back together as original. Think that is normal to have that type of flex, or should it be more rigid than that?
Things one thinks about as I wait for my schedule and the weather to come together for final sandblasting and priming.
Things one thinks about as I wait for my schedule and the weather to come together for final sandblasting and priming.
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