Rear Axle rebuild

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
scheinerj
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Rear Axle rebuild

Post by scheinerj » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:55 am

Good morning.
I began the process of starting to disassemble/rebuild my rear axle.
Here a few of the pictures - notice the metal shavings all of the place, and large something I pulled out of there. I am not quite sure where it came from -- because everything looked pretty good (the pinion did have some chunks out of it, but I did not think anything that big.

I removed the axle seals on each side, pinion seal as well, cleaned the housing, removed ring and pinion - (totally toast).
I still have the inner pinion bearing on the pinion. My plan was to remove that bearing and grind the inner diameter a little to create a setup bearing.
I assume the outer bearing does not need this correct? I still need to remove the inner and outer pinion cups, but I assume I can just knock those out with a punch/block of wood?

Now, here is where my question is...what tools do I actually need to setup this thing correctly?

What I already have :
- Pinion setup tool kit from Jegs

What I think I need:
- 12T press (Harbor freight)
- bearing separator and puller set (Harbor Freight)
- torque wrench in/pounds beam style
Do I need anything specific to help me press on and off bearings other than the press?

Thanks!
Attachments
carrier .jpg
carrier .jpg (101.34 KiB) Viewed 1209 times
23r.jpg
23r.jpg (42.7 KiB) Viewed 1209 times
pinion.jpg
pinion.jpg (53.65 KiB) Viewed 1209 times
Last edited by scheinerj on Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.


Wolfman
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Re: Rear Axle rebuild

Post by Wolfman » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:02 am

Dial indicator to check the ring gear backlash on the pinion.
You been fording streams ??
The oil looks more like mud.
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scheinerj
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Re: Rear Axle rebuild

Post by scheinerj » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:37 am

Right! I feel like I still smell like it from 2 days ago.

I will correct myself, the JEGS kit I have is I think just a general setup kit, I do not think it is specific to pinion depth.JS

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Re: Rear Axle rebuild

Post by artificer » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:49 am

What is a JEGS kit?
What exactly is it meant for? Picture.

Both pinion bearings need removal when fitting up....inside for pinion depth & outside for bearing preload.
So both being able to slide on & off may be extremely helpful when fitting up.

Many on here have done this activity & it can be done with no special tools or a press.
If one has a press it can be handy for this & other things.

Once the correct pinion depth is established FIRST, the rest is not too hard.
I removed the axle seals on each side, pinion seal as well, cleaned the housing, removed ring and pinion
Just reading this makes one ask what axle seals on each side were removed?
The ones most would replace are in the axle tubes & the ring [crown wheel] assembly must be out to access them.

I suggest this thread be located in the G503 Technical advice section for better coverage.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Rear Axle rebuild

Post by scheinerj » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:01 am

artificer wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:49 am
What is a JEGS kit?
What exactly is it meant for? Picture.
It can be used to determine the backlash and pinion depth.

Is there an easy way to get it moved to the Technical discussion - good idea thank you.

And yes, the axle tube seals were removed. The case has been completely stripped except for the inner and outer pinion cup.

If there is a way to do it without a press? How can I? What do I need to do so?

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Re: Rear Axle rebuild

Post by Boyso » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:07 am

I tried without a press and only succeeding in messing up my bearings :D

The press comes in handy for other stuff too.
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Re: Rear Axle rebuild

Post by artificer » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:56 am

Still have no idea what a JEGS kit is or how one uses it to check backlash & pinion depth. I bet I'm not the only one.

I agree about the press being helpful, as I clearly stated earlier, but would not buy one for doing this one job.

Once one has the dummy depth & preload right take the pinion with correct depth shims & inner bearing to a local mechanic/machinist/workshop & ask them to press the inner bearing on 'please'.

I know how I would do this with no access to a press. This type thing happens in military field repairs & trained mechanics are taught these things.

Enough is said in using an assembly method exactly the same as how one fits a semi floating axle bearing. This will work fine.
An issue only arises if one has to remove & replace the bearing again or a number of times

To get this thread moved....in the top right is an '!' symbol.
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Fill out the text box indicating that you would like your thread moved & a moderator will get that done for you.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Rear Axle rebuild

Post by Boyso » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:02 pm

I think jegs is referring to the store by the same name, John. As in this?
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance- ... 5/10002/-1
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Re: Rear Axle rebuild

Post by scheinerj » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:06 pm

Boyso wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:02 pm
I think jegs is referring to the store by the same name, John. As in this?
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance- ... 5/10002/-1
You are correct.
Thank you for posting that!
JS

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Re: Rear Axle rebuild

Post by scheinerj » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:23 pm

artificer wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:56 am
Still have no idea what a JEGS kit is or how one uses it to check backlash & pinion depth. I bet I'm not the only one.

I agree about the press being helpful, as I clearly stated earlier, but would not buy one for doing this one job.

Once one has the dummy depth & preload right take the pinion with correct depth shims & inner bearing to a local mechanic/machinist/workshop & ask them to press the inner bearing on 'please'.

I know how I would do this with no access to a press. This type thing happens in military field repairs & trained mechanics are taught these things.

Enough is said in using an assembly method exactly the same as how one fits a semi floating axle bearing. This will work fine.
An issue only arises if one has to remove & replace the bearing again or a number of times

To get this thread moved....in the top right is an '!' symbol.
Click on this & a panel will come up to report the thread.
Fill out the text box indicating that you would like your thread moved & a moderator will get that done for you.
Also a good point.
I will just need to make some setup bearings for both the inner and outer pinion.

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Re: Rear Axle rebuild

Post by artificer » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:32 pm

This may work. So let us all know how it works for you....new ring pinion sets should have + or - etched numbers for pinion depth.
http://www.jegs.com/installationinstruc ... -81655.pdf

Dummy bearings & cheap brake wheel cylinder honing tool....work well together to establish dummy slip fit on the pinion shaft.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Rear Axle rebuild

Post by scheinerj » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:14 am

Awesome, thanks for the aid.

So just for definite clarification, when I am setting pinion depth, I place the shims in between the axle housing, and the inner pinion cup, then drive the cup in? I have not removed the pinion cups yet so I am not sure what shims are currently there. I plan on removing them tonight or tomorrow.

Because I am installing a new ring and pinion, you mentioned the depth would be marked on it...That being said, should I use the same thickness shims that I remove as a starting point, when reinstalling the new pinion?

Jordan S.

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Re: Rear Axle rebuild

Post by artificer » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:36 am

There are 2 parts related to a tapered bearing, the cup & cone:
Timken wrote:Tapered roller bearings are separable into a cone assembly and a cup. The non-separable cone assembly consists of the inner ring, the rollers, and a cage that retains & evenly spaces the rollers. The cup is simply the outer ring.
There are shims in 2 places related to pinion adjustment & no shims are related to the bearing cup or outer ring.
The shims associated with pinion depth are between the inner [larger] bearing cone & pinion drive gear.
The shims associated with pinion bearing preload are between the drive pinion bearing spacer & the outer [smaller] bearing cone. Adding shims moves the bearing cups apart reducing preload & removing shims increases preload.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Rear Axle rebuild

Post by Michael Browne » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:11 pm

artificer wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:36 am
There are shims in 2 places related to pinion adjustment & no shims are related to the bearing cup or outer ring.
The shims associated with pinion depth are between the inner [larger] bearing cone & pinion drive gear.
Quote above is incorrect....

Just as a 'heads up' John G and Jordan,
the differentials fitted to world war 2 jeeps have the larger bearing cone fitted directly to the pinion shaft and the pinion depth measurement is adjusted by adding or removing shims behind the cup which is fitted into the main housing.
Cheers
Michael Browne
Heron Hill Motorpool

REAL jeeps have BAR GRILLES and FLAT FENDERS. The rest are imitations.

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Re: Rear Axle rebuild

Post by artificer » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:20 pm

My mistake, although one will get exactly the same result more easily adjusting [as I have] using shims between inner bearing cone & pinion drive gear.
Much easier than removing & replacing the bearing cup multiple times to get correct adjustment, especially when & if using a dummy bearing.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.


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