Bent clutch rod?

1959 - 1978, M151, M151A1, M151A2, Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the M151.
Rickf
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Re: Bent clutch rod?

Post by Rickf » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:46 am

Yep, should be a gasket there. You will probably end up having to use a RTV form a gasket material. I always use black RTV on differential covers with success and this is not much different since it always has oil against it. Do not use too much so that it ends up squeezing inside anymore than necessary. Also make sure the flange and trans are dry and clean, no oil on them before starting. Brake cleaner works good for this.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

steveperryman
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Re: Bent clutch rod?

Post by steveperryman » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:37 am

Thanks Rick, I found the gaskets on eBay, ordered them, I'll add the gasket sealant lightly... I'm excited, I got the thing running and now I can start working on other parts of it like the electrical and sheet metal. I was always afraid to put time into the smaller things in case the power pack was dead.

I missed a great deal, 2 functional power packs for $1000 sold locally... I have a feeling this won't be my last mutt...

I'll let you know once I've got the gaskets in.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cxTbuOlNQVmiZPZp2

Steve

Rickf
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Re: Bent clutch rod?

Post by Rickf » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:03 am

If you got the gasket then use a thin layer of Permatex #3 aviation sealer. Do not use the RTV with a gasket.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

steveperryman
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Re: Bent clutch rod?

Post by steveperryman » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:11 am

Got it. Did you head the engine running? Sound ok? I can't get the exhaust pipe to fit flush against the exhaust manifold unit, even with 2 gaskets, so I covered it with exhaust hole filler... I hope that will keep it quiet.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cxTbuOlNQVmiZPZp2

Steve

Rickf
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Re: Bent clutch rod?

Post by Rickf » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:26 pm

I hear something, either a chirp or a tap. Computers do not transfer engine sounds well. It is running on all four which is good. If that is a tap just go over the valve setting once it is warmed up. They will all tap but they should all sound the same. If it is a chirp try to locate it, could be a belt or the alternator.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone


steveperryman
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Re: Bent clutch rod?

Post by steveperryman » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:21 pm

Well the sounds you heard on the video was likely the hole in the exhaust right next to the flywheel...

I might have done something stupid... In my excitement, after I had the power pack in and bolted down, I drove up and back down my driveway with only the rear propeller in, after I stopped it, tranny oil was leaking heavily, and it looked like the front yoke on the transfer case was extended out and inch or so...

I shoved it back in, had to use a rubber mallet, but I keep getting small drips every 2 minutes or so from the bottom of the tranny. I had also removed the ball and spring plug, I put it back in, ball first, then spring, can I remove that without oil gushing out? I might drain the oil again and recheck the seals, I should have done this when the power pack was out, but I guess that's how you learn!

Thanks Rick, you've been a lifesaver..

Steve

steveperryman
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Re: Bent clutch rod?

Post by steveperryman » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:42 pm

I also just read another of your posts about a small plug in the yoke that gets blocked with the driveshaft? If I have transmission oil in, but no front propeller, is it expected to leak?

Thanks again

Rickf
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Re: Bent clutch rod?

Post by Rickf » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:16 am

Ok, Lets start from the beginning. The yoke is not held by anything so as you drive and the oil heats up it will push out of the transmission and instantly drain the entire transmission in the driveway. This may or may not have happened with yours, I don't know if it came that far out but if it was leaking that much it sounds like it did. If you drove it in with a mallet then you most likely popped the plug out of the yoke and will need a new yoke. There is a pressed in plug that seals the oil in from the shaft splines and when you put those yokes on you have to push them on slowly and give the trapped air a chance to escape. I suppose you could find a welder that could weld it in but it would be tough since the plug is thin and the yoke is heavy. I have not even tried it for that reason. You also always want to turn a yoke while installing it to prevent rolling the seal. As far as a blocked plug on the yoke? I am thinking maybe on the axle out by the wheel it is hard to get to the grease fitting? That is the only blocked plug I know of.

I don't know what ball and spring plug you are talking about so can't be of help there.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

steveperryman
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Re: Bent clutch rod?

Post by steveperryman » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:00 am

Like I said, I did something stupid .. ok. I'm going to drain the transmission oil and then examine the yoke and the seals...

Steve

Rickf
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Re: Bent clutch rod?

Post by Rickf » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:21 am

Well, live and learn. I know you are dying to get out and drive this thing. If you find that the plug has been knocked out and you cannot get a yoke in a hurry you can clean it exceptionally well with brake cleaner and then run a bead of RTV around the inside of the circumference around that plug after staking it in good and solid. Don't get any RTV on the splines. Let this sit for at least 24 hours before installing and install it slowly, do not put any extra oil on the yoke since there will be plenty on the splined shaft. Just slowly push it on and take a break when it gets hard to let the air out. This is not guaranteed not to leak but should get you by for a while, it will start to leak eventually so do not put off getting a new yoke.

Don't throw out the bad one, there is a good use for it and it even does involve a hammer. I use an old yoke without the plug in it to get new seals started in the transmission straight. It will not put them all the way in because the yoke will bottom out in the transmission unless you grind off about an 1 1/2 off the inner part of the yoke. If you were to do that it would probably be better to have it machined off and that way they could also machine a taper in what is left so the seal does not get rolled.

I should have all the people that have damaged their yokes send me the bad ones and start modifying them for this purpose. I can tell you that the new seals are a pain to get in straight!
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

steveperryman
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Re: Bent clutch rod?

Post by steveperryman » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:07 pm

I drained the oil, removed the front yoke, I think that plug you mentioned is still intact, if you can look at the photos, I have photos of the yoke and the seal.

I was surprised at how easy the yoke slipped back into the seal, I mean it just slid right in, almost no resistance. I have an extra yoke, so I slipped on a Jonny sleeve, but now the sleeve of the spare yoke (with the sleeve) butts up against the seal. Is this what you were referring to earlier about taking my time and turning slowly as the yoke slips in?

Do you think I should just replace the seal? It looks good to me, but check out the pictures please.

Steve

https://photos.app.goo.gl/iI7dwspvW2mO1bQz2

hambone
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Re: Bent clutch rod?

Post by hambone » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:04 pm

If I had a new seal I would replace it, make sure you clean all the grime up before replacement, that is a common area for leakage, the old saying is, if it's not leaking you are low of oil. :D All new seal kits come with wear sleeves, is this what you were referring to as a jonny sleeve? make sure the sleeve is pointing in the right direction, one end is tapered.
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Rickf
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Re: Bent clutch rod?

Post by Rickf » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:50 pm

I thought you replaced those seals while it was out? The way to check the yoke is to pour some gasoline in the hole, plug facing down naturally, and see if the gas leaks around the plug. You said it was leaking so something is wrong and it is not going to fix itself so put the new ones in. The rear one is easy since the housing comes out but the front one you are really going to wish you did when it was out. :roll: Hint, do NOT try to hammer those sleeves on, they will just bend. I use a vice and that way I can slowly squeeze the sleeve onto the yoke and see if it is perfectly straight. You can use a hydraulic press but be very careful because one it goes crooked it is ruined and it will go crooked real fast in a press.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

steveperryman
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Re: Bent clutch rod?

Post by steveperryman » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:56 am

Hi Rick, heres an update, again, thank you for your help along the way, its been invaluable... You asked in your last post if I changed the seals, I did, but I ended up swapping transmissions, Turns out the one I was using had been welded very poorly on the bottom, near the drain plug and I couldn't get the plug to seal properly, so out came the powerpack and I swapped the tranny, I put new seals in the new transmission after it leaked on the hoist.

Funny thing is, when I inserted the yoke with the new sleeve on, it kind of slid right on, very little pressure or resistance. It barely leaked though, so I reassembled the jeep and actually took it around the yard! No leaks since, I'm assuming the hot oil heats up the seals and expands them, a bit, but I really don't know. For the past 3 mornings I've looked with dread under the jeep, and every morning my little piece of cardboard under the tranmission has been dry!

So I'm using an old front propeller with terrible u-joints, but thats just to hold in the yoke, once the new propeller gets here, I can test out the 4 wheel drive and start putting it back together. I have already done the brakes, all new electrical, new lights....

Sheet metal work starts next, but I think that will be the easy part after all of this!

Thanks again

Steve

Rickf
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Re: Bent clutch rod?

Post by Rickf » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:02 am

Make sure you try out the four wheel drive in the dirt and not on the hard surface road. It can be very hard to get out of four wheel drive on a hard surface. If you find yourself in that position just put it in reverse and back up a little bit with the steering turned just a little while pulling lightly on the transfer shifter and when the binding releases it will pop right out. If it does not come out leave the steering in the same position and pull forward doing the same light pull on the transfer lever. I have driven on the road in four wheel drive by mistake, it will not break anything but it will wear the tires pretty fast. You will know it when you go to turn sharp and it starts to hop, you get that "oop's" moment.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

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