powerpack worth saving?

1959 - 1978, M151, M151A1, M151A2, Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the M151.
steveperryman
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powerpack worth saving?

Post by steveperryman » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:17 pm

This is my first restore of a military vehicle.. 1964 M151a1. The powerpack in the jeep seems neglected, I have a spare powerpack and I have swapped out the head, the distributor, lots of parts because I didn't want to swap the motor, I was going to in the beginning, but the clutch shaft was stuck in the tranny so tight, I couldn't get it out and couldn't get the motor out with the shaft in it...

Now, I have started the motor for a few seconds, as the radiator isnt hooked up, the starter started slipping and grinding... I pulled the starter and saw the teeth were mildly worn down, but the whole inside of the tranny seemed coated with a thin film of rust..

Should I swap to the other motor? You can view the photo through my google photo link...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LKKXGpGSESjKuC643

Any thoughts? I pulled the starter from the new powerpack and the insides look brand new. Like almost sparkling...

-steve


Rickf
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Re: powerpack worth saving?

Post by Rickf » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:15 pm

Looking in the hole there it looks like that engine/transmission was in a lot of water or in a very damp area. Does the clutch even work? You can try the better starter in there and see what happens. The rust is not going to cause any more damage, either it works or it doesn't. I suspect the clutch is not going to work well if at all. Which means pulling the powerpack out and getting the transmission off and swapping it to the other one.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

Rickf
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Re: powerpack worth saving?

Post by Rickf » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:16 pm

Were the cylinders in the engine free of rust?
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

steveperryman
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Re: powerpack worth saving?

Post by steveperryman » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:19 pm

Hi Rick, the cylinders we're very dirty, but no rust. I guess I'll hook up the newer starter and give it a whirl... I think the tranny is dry also, I'll fill it with 90 and squirt it on the rusty parts I can see.

Clutch appears to work!
Steve

Rickf
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Re: powerpack worth saving?

Post by Rickf » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:44 pm

Be sure to pull out the correct fill plug on the transmission! It is the LOWER of the two plugs. Pull the top one and you will be fishing in the transmission for the reverse shift fork! Be sure there is no water in the transmission, if it was sitting outside for a long time then it is possible that condensation got water in the transmission. It is best to take the top cover off to get a good look inside. Plus you can fill it at that time without going below.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

steveperryman
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Re: powerpack worth saving?

Post by steveperryman » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:49 pm

Thanks, I read about not touching that bolt! So I can remove the top of the tranny with no concerns? I wanted to do that to take a peek inside, but was worried that I couldn't put it back together again...

Steve

hambone
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Re: powerpack worth saving?

Post by hambone » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:20 pm

Pulling the hat is simple, remove the bolts and it will come right out, nothing is going to fly apart, may take a little convincing seeing the rust situation, I have a feeling the power pack is coming out from what I see from the clutch.

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muttguru
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Re: powerpack worth saving?

Post by muttguru » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:40 am

steveperryman wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:49 pm
So I can remove the top of the tranny with no concerns? I wanted to do that to take a peek inside, but was worried that I couldn't put it back together again...

Steve
Steve....
make sure that the gearshift lever is in neutral when you remove it from the top.... otherwise you will have to realign the shifters to get it back in place.
Ken
Contact address - muttguru@aol.com
Always wanted - Details and pictures of M416 Trailer data plates & M151 data plates & body-tags for my research. Thanks!

steveperryman
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Re: powerpack worth saving?

Post by steveperryman » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:52 am

Got it, if you all don't mind, I'll post photos of what it looks like...

Thanks again guys.

Steve

steveperryman
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Re: powerpack worth saving?

Post by steveperryman » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:23 am

I added 5 photos of the transmission with the top off. I think it looks pretty good... Nothing a few hundred miles wont polish off... I'm confused though why the transmission would look ok (assuming you agree), and the portion with the flywheel teeth can look so bad?

I dont want to pull the powerpack, but at the same time, I want the best power pack in there... Does this look salvageable?

Before I try cranking with the new starter, I want to get the proper oil in and make sure the friction is lowest so I dont risk ripping up teeth... Oil will be in on Tuesday...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LKKXGpGSESjKuC643

Thank again guys

-Steve

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Re: powerpack worth saving?

Post by Rickf » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:20 am

You have to remember that the transmission is sealed so the area that the clutch is in does not get oil, if it did your clutch would not be any good. So even though the clutch is rusted to hell the innards are in good shape. Look for a GL4 rated oil for the transmission or you can go to a tracctor supply store and get the old fashioned GL1 that it was originally specified for. Do not use GL5 gear oil unless it says right on it that it has the MT-1 additive for yellow metals.
The rust in the bell housing area is basically surface rust and it should not affect the operation of the clutch or starter. In saying that it is pretty heavy on the teeth of the flywheel so you will just have to see how the starter works. If it grinds or hangs up you are going to have to pull the powerpack out and get that transmission off of the engine and change a few things around. You can use that transmission and engine and the clutch and flywheel from the other one. What is the condition of the other engine? The other transmission?
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

steveperryman
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Re: powerpack worth saving?

Post by steveperryman » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:26 am

Ok, I have ordered some GL4, so I'll be adding that in on Tuesday, thanks for the info for the clutch, I'd feel pretty stupid if I dumped oil in the clutch assembly. The other motor has electronic ignition, and its clean as ever. I have stripped it though, I took everything good off of it and put it on the unit in the Mutt, the head, the ignition, the fuel pump...

I can put the clutch to the floor, but I havent tested rolling the jeep with the clutch in and having the tranny in gear. I'll pout the top back on, put it in gear, push in the clutch and see if it rolls. If not, I imagine the clutch is fused and I'm out of options...


-Steve

steveperryman
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Re: powerpack worth saving?

Post by steveperryman » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:00 pm

Well, the clutch is fused.. I'm going to try some techniques from the web regarding breaking the clutch free... Since its not running, I'm relying on me moving the jeep forward or back with the clutch engaged..

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Re: powerpack worth saving?

Post by Rickf » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:14 pm

You will be time and money ahead to use the best of all the parts. I honestly do not know why you would have taken parts off of a good clean motor and put them on a motor that you said the cylinders "were very dirty". If you want my honest opinion I think you are going to run into more trouble with that engine if it was as you say. An engine in that condition should be stripped down to the bare block and totally cleaned and checked. If the cylinders were dirty then the dirt is all throughout the engine. You will never get the clutch broken loose and working correctly. It may break loose but it will not work right. Cut your losses here and put the good stuff back on the good motor with the good clutch and good transmission. Take this one apart and clean and rebuild it in your spare time and then you have a spare. You know the transmission is good assuming the input shaft is not damaged from rust.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

steveperryman
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Posts: 123
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 3:06 am
Location:

Re: powerpack worth saving?

Post by steveperryman » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:49 pm

Well, I was hoping that after breaking the clutch free, It would perform normally... I agree though, Put the best parts back on the best motor and stop trying to make a franken-motor... .

I have to make an engine hoist from a beam on my deck and use a winch to lift the thing up...

-Steve


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