M18 Paracaisson photos needed
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M18 Paracaisson photos needed
I currently restoring a WWII M18 Paracaisson and also own/restored a M9A2. I am almost done with the body restoration of the M18 - lots of horrible dents and dings that I have had to use a specially made die to work out. I am looking for photos of the inside of the M18, either in manuals or complete original examples of the cart.
The M18 is the aluminum version of the steel M9A2. The problem is the M18 is longer than the M9A2, so the inside layout is different. Does anyone know why? The M9A2, when deployed from the aircraft as a sealed container, held nine rounds of 75mm Howitzer ammunition, plus the wheels and the draw bar. Once on the ground, the cart was assembled and could then hold 18 rounds of ammunition. The contents of the M18 is a mystery to me when it comes to the inside divider placement and contents because it is longer. Does anyone have any photos of the inside?
The M18 is the aluminum version of the steel M9A2. The problem is the M18 is longer than the M9A2, so the inside layout is different. Does anyone know why? The M9A2, when deployed from the aircraft as a sealed container, held nine rounds of 75mm Howitzer ammunition, plus the wheels and the draw bar. Once on the ground, the cart was assembled and could then hold 18 rounds of ammunition. The contents of the M18 is a mystery to me when it comes to the inside divider placement and contents because it is longer. Does anyone have any photos of the inside?
Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
"If the DUKW was introduced in 1944 it would have been called a FUKW."
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Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
"If the DUKW was introduced in 1944 it would have been called a FUKW."
45 GMC DUKW (105mm)
42 Ford GPW
44 Willys MB
44 Clark CA-1
43 Studebaker T-24
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42 Willys MBT
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Re: M18 Paracaisson photos needed
The manual only states that the M18 is similar enough to the M9A2 that the loading data for the M9A2 will suffice.
41 M3 37mm A/T gun
42 M1A1 75mm pack how
43 MBT trailer
43 WC52
43 WC62
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M1942 USMC handcart
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M1917 Ammo cart
43 Columbia bike
42 M1A1 75mm pack how
43 MBT trailer
43 WC52
43 WC62
44 Chevy 1.5 ton
44 MZ2 USMC radio Jeep
44 RL35 reel cart
44 K38 trailer
43 K52 trailer
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M1942 USMC handcart
M1917 Litter Carrier
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Re: M18 Paracaisson photos needed
Exactly, which is what really puzzles me. Per TM9-2300, Artillery Material and Associated Equipment, May 1949, page 60, it lists: Ammunition 8 rounds in individual fiber containers (but that is it).
My M9A2 is 36.5" long. My M18 is 50.5 inches long. What was all of the additional space used for?
Here is my M18:
http://www.questmasters.us/M18_Paracaisson.html
My M9A2 is 36.5" long. My M18 is 50.5 inches long. What was all of the additional space used for?
Here is my M18:
http://www.questmasters.us/M18_Paracaisson.html
Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
"If the DUKW was introduced in 1944 it would have been called a FUKW."
45 GMC DUKW (105mm)
42 Ford GPW
44 Willys MB
44 Clark CA-1
43 Studebaker T-24
42 Harley WLA
44 Cushman 53
42 Willys MBT
44 Columbia F-92L
43 Huffman G-519
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
"If the DUKW was introduced in 1944 it would have been called a FUKW."
45 GMC DUKW (105mm)
42 Ford GPW
44 Willys MB
44 Clark CA-1
43 Studebaker T-24
42 Harley WLA
44 Cushman 53
42 Willys MBT
44 Columbia F-92L
43 Huffman G-519
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Re: M18 Paracaisson photos needed
My M5A2 paracrate is about that long. Any chance that your M18 is really one of the other crates with the M18 axle added to it?
41 M3 37mm A/T gun
42 M1A1 75mm pack how
43 MBT trailer
43 WC52
43 WC62
44 Chevy 1.5 ton
44 MZ2 USMC radio Jeep
44 RL35 reel cart
44 K38 trailer
43 K52 trailer
43 M3A4 handcarts(8)
M1942 USMC handcart
M1917 Litter Carrier
M1917 Ammo cart
43 Columbia bike
42 M1A1 75mm pack how
43 MBT trailer
43 WC52
43 WC62
44 Chevy 1.5 ton
44 MZ2 USMC radio Jeep
44 RL35 reel cart
44 K38 trailer
43 K52 trailer
43 M3A4 handcarts(8)
M1942 USMC handcart
M1917 Litter Carrier
M1917 Ammo cart
43 Columbia bike
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Re: M18 Paracaisson photos needed
Robin,
I had actually considered that - but there are definitely some ways to be sure. Unfortunately, there are very few of the steel and aluminum paracrates and paracaissons to make comparisons - but there are a few out there. BUT, the good news is that for the aluminum version - each part is stamped with a part number, to include the body. The steel parts and aluminum parts do have different part numbers. My aluminum body is part number 7131981. I do not have the part number list for the aluminum paracrate/paracaisson. My M18 Aluminum Paracaisson has the correct end caps with the tow bar hole, tow bar casting, and axle housing. To make a paracrate a paracaisson you would have to replace all of those parts, which would seem to be a lot of work for the purpose of, I don't know - increasing the length by 14" for a longer towable Paracrate cart hybrid? But, during the war and after - folks did all kinds of modifications so anything is possible. I also considered that this Paracaisson may be for larger ammunition like the 105mm M1 Howitzer, which the airborne did have a version of - but I have seen no reference for a Paracrate or Paracaisson that supported that specific weapon system.
To narrow down the body identity of this M18 Paracaisson, looking at and comparing the body holes to your M5A1, it is definitely not the steel M5A1 or aluminum M15 which held the howitzer tube and lifting bar.
Another clue is that my M18 has the aluminum center reinforcement, part number 7131539 - but on the steel M9A2, the reinforcement part number 7115620, there were two of them to support the ammunition load.
I had actually considered that - but there are definitely some ways to be sure. Unfortunately, there are very few of the steel and aluminum paracrates and paracaissons to make comparisons - but there are a few out there. BUT, the good news is that for the aluminum version - each part is stamped with a part number, to include the body. The steel parts and aluminum parts do have different part numbers. My aluminum body is part number 7131981. I do not have the part number list for the aluminum paracrate/paracaisson. My M18 Aluminum Paracaisson has the correct end caps with the tow bar hole, tow bar casting, and axle housing. To make a paracrate a paracaisson you would have to replace all of those parts, which would seem to be a lot of work for the purpose of, I don't know - increasing the length by 14" for a longer towable Paracrate cart hybrid? But, during the war and after - folks did all kinds of modifications so anything is possible. I also considered that this Paracaisson may be for larger ammunition like the 105mm M1 Howitzer, which the airborne did have a version of - but I have seen no reference for a Paracrate or Paracaisson that supported that specific weapon system.
To narrow down the body identity of this M18 Paracaisson, looking at and comparing the body holes to your M5A1, it is definitely not the steel M5A1 or aluminum M15 which held the howitzer tube and lifting bar.
Another clue is that my M18 has the aluminum center reinforcement, part number 7131539 - but on the steel M9A2, the reinforcement part number 7115620, there were two of them to support the ammunition load.
Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
"If the DUKW was introduced in 1944 it would have been called a FUKW."
45 GMC DUKW (105mm)
42 Ford GPW
44 Willys MB
44 Clark CA-1
43 Studebaker T-24
42 Harley WLA
44 Cushman 53
42 Willys MBT
44 Columbia F-92L
43 Huffman G-519
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
"If the DUKW was introduced in 1944 it would have been called a FUKW."
45 GMC DUKW (105mm)
42 Ford GPW
44 Willys MB
44 Clark CA-1
43 Studebaker T-24
42 Harley WLA
44 Cushman 53
42 Willys MBT
44 Columbia F-92L
43 Huffman G-519
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Re: M18 Paracaisson photos needed
Does your M18 have the series of holes for this U shaped bracket? On one end only at the center top. My M5A2 and all of the other larger paracrates have this U shaped bracket but not the M9A2.
Axle housing part number on the M9A2.
Draw bar termination housing part number, M9A2.
Axle housing part number on the M9A2.
Draw bar termination housing part number, M9A2.
41 M3 37mm A/T gun
42 M1A1 75mm pack how
43 MBT trailer
43 WC52
43 WC62
44 Chevy 1.5 ton
44 MZ2 USMC radio Jeep
44 RL35 reel cart
44 K38 trailer
43 K52 trailer
43 M3A4 handcarts(8)
M1942 USMC handcart
M1917 Litter Carrier
M1917 Ammo cart
43 Columbia bike
42 M1A1 75mm pack how
43 MBT trailer
43 WC52
43 WC62
44 Chevy 1.5 ton
44 MZ2 USMC radio Jeep
44 RL35 reel cart
44 K38 trailer
43 K52 trailer
43 M3A4 handcarts(8)
M1942 USMC handcart
M1917 Litter Carrier
M1917 Ammo cart
43 Columbia bike
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Re: M18 Paracaisson photos needed
One thought of mine is that possibly your cart is longer to accommodate these steel shipping tubes for 75mm pack howitzer ammunition. It measures 29 1/8" long. A few inches longer than the cardboard tubes.
41 M3 37mm A/T gun
42 M1A1 75mm pack how
43 MBT trailer
43 WC52
43 WC62
44 Chevy 1.5 ton
44 MZ2 USMC radio Jeep
44 RL35 reel cart
44 K38 trailer
43 K52 trailer
43 M3A4 handcarts(8)
M1942 USMC handcart
M1917 Litter Carrier
M1917 Ammo cart
43 Columbia bike
42 M1A1 75mm pack how
43 MBT trailer
43 WC52
43 WC62
44 Chevy 1.5 ton
44 MZ2 USMC radio Jeep
44 RL35 reel cart
44 K38 trailer
43 K52 trailer
43 M3A4 handcarts(8)
M1942 USMC handcart
M1917 Litter Carrier
M1917 Ammo cart
43 Columbia bike
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Re: M18 Paracaisson photos needed
The M3A2, M4A2, and M5A2 paracrates all have 3 dividers inside.
The M6A1 is a small paracrate for the breech ring and sight.
The M8A1 have 4 dividers inside. This is the paracrate for ammunition.
The M9A2 paracaisson has several dividers and other braces consequently there are a lot of bolt holes in this cart.
All these pics are from TM 9-319 75mm Pack howitzer M1A1 and Carriage M8 November 1948. Comparing your crate body to the M3A2, M4A2, and M5A2 I think yours isn't an M18 at all but one of the M13, M14, or M15 crates for the howitzer proper.
The M6A1 is a small paracrate for the breech ring and sight.
The M8A1 have 4 dividers inside. This is the paracrate for ammunition.
The M9A2 paracaisson has several dividers and other braces consequently there are a lot of bolt holes in this cart.
All these pics are from TM 9-319 75mm Pack howitzer M1A1 and Carriage M8 November 1948. Comparing your crate body to the M3A2, M4A2, and M5A2 I think yours isn't an M18 at all but one of the M13, M14, or M15 crates for the howitzer proper.
41 M3 37mm A/T gun
42 M1A1 75mm pack how
43 MBT trailer
43 WC52
43 WC62
44 Chevy 1.5 ton
44 MZ2 USMC radio Jeep
44 RL35 reel cart
44 K38 trailer
43 K52 trailer
43 M3A4 handcarts(8)
M1942 USMC handcart
M1917 Litter Carrier
M1917 Ammo cart
43 Columbia bike
42 M1A1 75mm pack how
43 MBT trailer
43 WC52
43 WC62
44 Chevy 1.5 ton
44 MZ2 USMC radio Jeep
44 RL35 reel cart
44 K38 trailer
43 K52 trailer
43 M3A4 handcarts(8)
M1942 USMC handcart
M1917 Litter Carrier
M1917 Ammo cart
43 Columbia bike
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Re: M18 Paracaisson photos needed
My M18 aluminum body does not have that U-shaped bracket, nor does it have the holes. I have crushed glass blasted it to bare metal...and no holes have been there for that bracket nor have they been filled.
My M18 Axle Support Bracket also has the part number D7115606 but is made of aluminum unlike the one on my M9A2 which is steel with the same part number.
My M18 Draw Bar Housing is part number 7131548, also made of aluminum.
Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
"If the DUKW was introduced in 1944 it would have been called a FUKW."
45 GMC DUKW (105mm)
42 Ford GPW
44 Willys MB
44 Clark CA-1
43 Studebaker T-24
42 Harley WLA
44 Cushman 53
42 Willys MBT
44 Columbia F-92L
43 Huffman G-519
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
"If the DUKW was introduced in 1944 it would have been called a FUKW."
45 GMC DUKW (105mm)
42 Ford GPW
44 Willys MB
44 Clark CA-1
43 Studebaker T-24
42 Harley WLA
44 Cushman 53
42 Willys MBT
44 Columbia F-92L
43 Huffman G-519
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Re: M18 Paracaisson photos needed
Ok....we may be getting somewhere!!! Looking at the picture of the steel M8A1 Parachest, aluminum version M17 Parachest - this could be the corrugated body I have. Measuring from bottom to top, and describing the vertical holes going across the body: two rows of holes for the end cap, then 13 holes just above that (transom), another row of 13 holes at the 13" (transom), row of 13 holes at 24 1/2" (transom), row of 13 holes at 37 1/4" (transom) then a row of 13 holes at the top (transom) just before the two rows of holes for the end caps.
Can you scan a clearer image of just that page, including the tube layout at the bottom?
I guess I have an M17 body with all of the other parts being M18 parts. I suppose I could replace the M17 corrugated body and restore it correctly as a M18....then looking for correct M17 end caps and transoms to restore that body.
Can you scan a clearer image of just that page, including the tube layout at the bottom?
I guess I have an M17 body with all of the other parts being M18 parts. I suppose I could replace the M17 corrugated body and restore it correctly as a M18....then looking for correct M17 end caps and transoms to restore that body.
Thanks,
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
"If the DUKW was introduced in 1944 it would have been called a FUKW."
45 GMC DUKW (105mm)
42 Ford GPW
44 Willys MB
44 Clark CA-1
43 Studebaker T-24
42 Harley WLA
44 Cushman 53
42 Willys MBT
44 Columbia F-92L
43 Huffman G-519
Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
"If the DUKW was introduced in 1944 it would have been called a FUKW."
45 GMC DUKW (105mm)
42 Ford GPW
44 Willys MB
44 Clark CA-1
43 Studebaker T-24
42 Harley WLA
44 Cushman 53
42 Willys MBT
44 Columbia F-92L
43 Huffman G-519
-
- G-Major General
- Posts: 3340
- Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 5:52 pm
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Re: M18 Paracaisson photos needed
41 M3 37mm A/T gun
42 M1A1 75mm pack how
43 MBT trailer
43 WC52
43 WC62
44 Chevy 1.5 ton
44 MZ2 USMC radio Jeep
44 RL35 reel cart
44 K38 trailer
43 K52 trailer
43 M3A4 handcarts(8)
M1942 USMC handcart
M1917 Litter Carrier
M1917 Ammo cart
43 Columbia bike
42 M1A1 75mm pack how
43 MBT trailer
43 WC52
43 WC62
44 Chevy 1.5 ton
44 MZ2 USMC radio Jeep
44 RL35 reel cart
44 K38 trailer
43 K52 trailer
43 M3A4 handcarts(8)
M1942 USMC handcart
M1917 Litter Carrier
M1917 Ammo cart
43 Columbia bike
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Re: M18 Paracaisson photos needed
Had a pair of M9A1 paracaissons a few decades back, came out of John Mahalchik's estate sale: they were complete & unassembled... I put them together, but ended up selling them both- I THINK they went to Jim Corcoran in Texas, but as has been, as I said, a few decades since... I still find little bits now & then from them, which were lost at the time, but turn up in my stuff from time to time... I always thought they were kinda neat.
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