Where does MVPA stand on normal use of milvehs?

Discussion of Local, State, and Federal issues regarding MV Legislation, MV use restrictions, MV registration refusals, etc. As these issues may ultimately affect other jurisdictions, information and education of all MV owners is crucial for the future ownership and use of our MVs.
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undysworld
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Where does MVPA stand on normal use of milvehs?

Post by undysworld » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:26 pm

We've been battling out DMV here in Wisconsin for several years over our rights to own and operate ex-military vehicles (milvehs). Many owners' concerns were addressed by last years "Historic Military Vehicle" law and new license plates. But many other owners bought a milveh to use: loggers, farmers, outdoorsmen, etc. Those guys can't register their vehicle for the purposes they wish.

Current efforts are underway to allow such normal (Auto, Truck, Farm, RV, etc.) registration, by demanding WisDOT/DMV honor existing state and federal laws. See: http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=126&t=17919

I expected MVPA would support such efforts, but apparently it's still an undecided matter. I got this recently:
Since I’m working as an appointed member of the MVPA Board of Directors legislative committee, I can help you understand who the people involved are and what their roll is. Remember, the P in MVPA stands for preservation. It is not the Military Vehicle Commercial Owners and dealers association. Believe me when I say there is a great deal of discussion and action at the national MVPA board level about exactly what the roll should be in state legislative issues. It may or may not include advocating for commercial or regular use.
I'm not trying to push MVPA and it's members one way or another. But if MVPA supports both collectors and users of milvehs, we could use their support here. I'm just asking, where does MVPA (and it's members) stand?

Thanks,
Paul Underwood
1966 AM-General M35A-2
1973 DeTomaso Pantera
1976 Steyr-Puch Pinzgauer 712M
M-416 Trailer (behind Pinzgauer)
1980 AMC Jeep CJ-5

Info on Legislation at: http://www.alfaheaven.com/MilitarySecti ... Legis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kevin Lockwood
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Re: Where does MVPA stand on normal use of milvehs?

Post by Kevin Lockwood » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:05 pm

Well I feel like George Patton. I should probably keep quiet BUT????
I am an MVPA member #15647.
My hope is that MVPA members in Wisconsin will decide that their rights are worth fighting for. I understand that the national should, and does, look to the local affiliates to get a feel of how best to help in such cases. My opinion is that if you realize that you have a weak link in your defense you my have to jump in your self. I'm not from Wisconsin so I do not assume to know all the details. I heard from several that the reason MV owners had to submit to the benevolence of WisDOT was that they were all powerful and would sweep MVs from the road. Well my friend Paul U. and a few other "DAVIDS" slew the goliath last fall, proving that if we had fought the WisDOT ogre it could have been defeated. So I am still scratching my head wondering why MV owners for the most part made their deal with the devil. I see the Preservation word played and hope that most MVPA members realize preserving means so much more than just the master class vehicles. PRESERVE- should preserve our rights to drive un-restricted amongst other licensed and insured motorists. PRESERVE- should preserve our ability to drive our historic vehicle to our kids scout meeting or to take our family out for a drive in the GPW. PRESERVE- should allow us to assist emergency personal in reaching a heart attack patient snowbound when response vehicles could not. We must use our vehicles, the daily interaction with our peers is important.
The MVPA is running ads that state "Keep'em Rolling" I certainly hope that those who can will use every asset in the MVPA's control to avenge the defeat suffered last year in Wisconsin.
So in the words of my MVPA "KEEP'EM ROLLING"
I, as an MVPA member, vote to fight WisDOT and stick together with other vintage motor vehicles. I hope my fellow MVPA members feel the same.
Kevin Lockwood
42 Ford GPW
42 Oshkosh AAF Snowblower
41 White M2 halftrack
42 Autocar M2A1 was M2 halftrack
42 Autocar M3-75 halftrack
42 White M4A1 was M4 halftrack
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43 White M16 was M13 halftrack
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undysworld
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Re: Where does MVPA stand on normal use of milvehs?

Post by undysworld » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:34 pm

Thanks for speaking up Kevin. I've often thought to keep quiet too, but...

I wrote earlier that I wasn't trying to persuade anyone. But that's not entirely true, since I admittedly have a goal in mind.

I too hope that MVPA members nationwide would speak up to support the idea that the MVPA stands for the preservation of all ex-military vehicles, including the option of normal registration for FMVSS-compliant milvehs, no matter who owns them nor what the owner/s choose to safely and legally do with them.

And let's credit Jeff Rowsam for having succeeded in the passage of a bill which allows milvehs which are not FMVSS-compliant, and those used for display or parade purposes to be registered, essentially for free. It's not perfect, but it serves the needs of the collector guys pretty well. It just didn't do much for us guys who intend to use our trucks.

Anyway, all you MVPA members should think about what you support, and let your organization reflect that opinion. It would be a great benefit just to have the MVPA officially speak up in support our efforts for normal registration.
1966 AM-General M35A-2
1973 DeTomaso Pantera
1976 Steyr-Puch Pinzgauer 712M
M-416 Trailer (behind Pinzgauer)
1980 AMC Jeep CJ-5

Info on Legislation at: http://www.alfaheaven.com/MilitarySecti ... Legis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Where does MVPA stand on normal use of milvehs?

Post by Ernie Baals » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:39 pm

Well said Kevin
I couldn't agree with you more.
The national is in a sticky place. They can't step on the will of the local clubs, and when asked they don't have the resorces at this time to do much anyway.
I do think, that no matter how well intentioned Jeff's actions were, I can't help comapring him the Chamberlain. Wics DMV as Germany and the vehicle owners as Czechoslovakia.
What the MVPA should do, is appoint the Kansas group that beat the system there to head a committee to deal with the local DMVs
Ernie
Rip Dad 1/22/24 to 12/21/11
I will always love and miss you.
Ernie Baals MVPA 104C and 3104, AACA, SJC MVPA

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Re: Where does MVPA stand on normal use of milvehs?

Post by Old Dodge Guy » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:53 pm

Several great statements in here. Yes, the MVPA does NOT have the resources to fight this, at least not standing alone. Maybe in partnership with other old vehicle organizations, they can pool resources to help. Even though as a member I do not expect them to, or even ask them to. I DO expect them as MY representative of the organization I have long belonged to, to support this initiative. Even if they don't send a dime. I have supported the MVPA through good and bad for 35 plus years, and I hope to for many more. But I expect them to support my beliefs in supporting anything to do with military vehicles. I am personally not in favor of converting these great vehicles to mud draggers or rock crawlers, but I think we need to support those that do. So they can help support us too. If we close off the "users" of these vehicles, then we will lose their assistance. If many of you have not noticed, the MVPA is getting older. The MVPA is getting smaller. We need NEW people to just keep it going. If that means reaching out to slightly different folks, we need to look at that. It used to be that just mentioning "re-enactors" would cause some to have the vapors. That is changing. Now we have modelers. That is good. We can still have the "purists" that trailer their stuff to and from the car wash, to the rest of use that can occasionally go out and play in the dirt. There is room for all. I think the MVPA should still stress the Preservation, but needs to also address the Military Vehicle ASSOCIATION. There was once a pretty bright fella that said "If we don't hang together, we will most certainly hang separately."
MVPA 555
Still crazy after all these years.
The OD bug bit me in 1970......and I have never been the same


undysworld
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Re: Where does MVPA stand on normal use of milvehs?

Post by undysworld » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:34 am

ODG,

Thanks for your comments.

I'm not expecting MVPA to fund us. I'd be pleased as punch simply to have them reach out to their Wisconsin members and recommend that those members make a couple of phone calls in support of this effort. That's all I'm asking. (I think expecting MVPA to spend their money on one state's problem would be unfair to other states members.)

I appreciate your comments on the mud/rock crowd. Definitely each to their own. But every one of us are united by the vehicles. We absolutely need to be supporting each other, and this includes the collector car groups like the hot-rodders and the modified guys. We are all enthusiasts of specialized vehicles. As you wrote, "there is room for all".
1966 AM-General M35A-2
1973 DeTomaso Pantera
1976 Steyr-Puch Pinzgauer 712M
M-416 Trailer (behind Pinzgauer)
1980 AMC Jeep CJ-5

Info on Legislation at: http://www.alfaheaven.com/MilitarySecti ... Legis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Where does MVPA stand on normal use of milvehs?

Post by DaninNM » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:23 am

I cosats virtually nothing to send that BOARD LETTER TO WISCONSIN REPS AND GOVERNOR!!!!!! After a vpte of the memerbhil or Board to send such a letter. If the guys that are using former Mil Vehs can't register them where in the hell do you think the next restoration project is going to come from??????

Got a letter about increasing membership; picking up that fight is one way to get those supporters!
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Re: Where does MVPA stand on normal use of milvehs?

Post by lt.luke » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:16 pm

As I read through this thread (& a bunch of others all over the boards) and got to the part that talked about the farmers & such using MVs on a daily basis; then why should the MVPA advocate for them?

That always reminds me of something posted on JeepDraw:

"Ode To Bubba"

Bubba is Important

Just remember Bubba in your Prayers. ...Bubba (Earl or Fred... he goes by many names) stands just behind the guy who stored his old jeep in a nice dry spot in some far flung shed, ready for some aspiring restorer to come along and fall in love and bring the "old girl" back to original......On the other hand, you have those who left the "old girl" out in the rain, snow, dust and mud, and she slowly rusted away so no one could restore it.....Then you have Bubba, a giant of a man, he kept the jeep going all those years with bits of wire, angle iron, do-hickeys, and "add on's", modifications, slap happy welds, and the good Lord only knows what else. BUT!!....what he did was save it for the adventurous restorer to remove all those things....so next time you pick up an old wreck Bubba has played with, be thankful. it could have been far worse....Raise a glass of frothy stuff to Bubba, the unsung hero of the jeep....no matter how much we loath his handiwork...without him, half of us wouldn't have a jeep today. '

So "Thank You Bubba"...you saved a jeep for me.
Jon
I think everyone should read this now & then; and it should be required reading for everyone on the board of directors. Bubba is a good thing, & we should help him out from time to time!
Luke Sparks
MAJ, FA

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undysworld
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Re: Where does MVPA stand on normal use of milvehs?

Post by undysworld » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:58 am

Hey, I guess I'm a "Bubba", since I've got Farm plates on my Deuce and annual Truck plates on my Pinzgauer. Lt. Luke, thanks for the comment and bump to the thread.

For a long time, I've been arguing for all owners of unusual or old vehicles to consider themselves to be members of one big group, whether the vehicle/s are ex-mil or civilian, modified or stock, trailer queens or work trucks. At least here in Wisconsin, we have all been under siege by the local DMV, and if we're going to keep our vehicles on the road, we have to stand united and fight for our rights. (As a "fer-instance", right now ex-military GMC pickups and Blazers can only be registered here for parade/car show uses, and a 1963 VW bug with an aftermarket AM/FM/Cassette deck cannot register as a collector. That's just wrong.)

The law which is causing most of these problems was passed just last year, as part of a bill intended to benefit (and supported by many) local military vehicle collectors. But it shot normal users (Bubbas) in the foot.

I'm not suggesting MVPA should advocate for VW Bug owners. But MVPA should support efforts to allow ex-military vehicles to be titled/licensed for ALL uses, for collectors and Bubbas.

If you allow DMV to split us into small segments, they will undoubtedly impose limitations on some, and when those vehicles get sent to the crusher, even the collectors will have that many fewer vehicles to work with.

We Must ALL Stand Together. Make YOUR Vote Count.
Support MVPA Board Members Who Support The Bubbas!
1966 AM-General M35A-2
1973 DeTomaso Pantera
1976 Steyr-Puch Pinzgauer 712M
M-416 Trailer (behind Pinzgauer)
1980 AMC Jeep CJ-5

Info on Legislation at: http://www.alfaheaven.com/MilitarySecti ... Legis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Where does MVPA stand on normal use of milvehs?

Post by Ben Dover » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:07 am

Funny, there are no problems up here, I even registered and insured my M-114 and drove it in local traffic without a hitch.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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Re: Where does MVPA stand on normal use of milvehs?

Post by Old Dodge Guy » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:30 am

Ben,
Different states, different rules. Several years ago I went to a sale in Kansas, tried to buy a 1/4 jeep trailer. In Kansas they do not title trailers I was told, I would get just a bill of sale. In Missouri, (where I live) you MUST!! have a title. Figuring in the time, trouble and cost of getting a title for the trailer made it way too cost prohibitive to even bid on it. It sold reasonable, but the cost to me to make it legal in my state was just too much.
I fully support anyone who uses their vehicle for any use, and would like the MVPA to take the same position. Nothing more than just support is OK, but certainly no less!!!!! If we stick to just completly restored parade/trailer queens, the hobby will most certainly die! I wish to be in a supportive, happy, long lived hobby!
Besides, if you have that big, expensive OD toy sitting there, I want to go play with it. :D
Still crazy after all these years.
The OD bug bit me in 1970......and I have never been the same

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Re: Where does MVPA stand on normal use of milvehs?

Post by lt.luke » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:19 am

When ANY vehicle is kept moving and excersised, then it stays in overall better condition. That goes for anything, and if you don't believe it, let your 15 - 20 yr old car sit for a year (ie deployment), and when you come home, within a month, the battery and fuel system will need work. Must less, a much older vehicle.

Anyway, I belive it's in the best interest of the MVPA and whatever other groups are out there should be in CONCERT with each other. Bubba helps us all, in the long run, and has probably kept as many vehicles of all types on the road.
Luke Sparks
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