Re: WisDOT ban on Ex-Mil Veh. (AB-592) (TRANS-123)

[Bill M]

I would urge owners who think this bill only targets certain classes of HMVs to unite behind the affected vehicle owners because this is the thin edge of the wedge. If the bureaucrats win this one they will continue to nibble way at historic vehicles owners and will wipe you off under some safety or "green" guise. Other municipalities including foreign ones will look at this and if successful this won't just stop in the US. This is how they operate and they can only do it if apathy reigns...
Good luck.
Bill.

[Cobra Doc]

I would urge owners who think this bill only targets certain classes of HMVs to unite behind the affected vehicle owners because this is the thin edge of the wedge. If the bureaucrats win this one they will continue to nibble way at historic vehicles owners and will wipe you off under some safety or "green" guise. Other municipalities including foreign ones will look at this and if successful this won't just stop in the US. This is how they operate and they can only do it if apathy reigns...
Good luck.
Bill.

Once more to make the comparison to gun control: They went after the imported machine guns, then the REimported machine guns, then all machine guns.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
---Martin Niemöller

[tamnalan]

So, Wisconsin's elected and appointed officials are Nazis? Wow.

Maybe that state has deeper problems.

[Kevin Lockwood]

CobraDoc you are right on.
I said this before: Gun owners have learned the folly of compromise with these people. I hope MV owners are fast learners.
I don't believe anyone called WisDOT nazis merely pointed out that these tactics have been used before to no good.

[tamnalan]

I don't see a connection to gun control at all. One important reason why some folks want to preserve the right to own weapons is so they can kill other people if they deem it necessary. No more, no less. Nobody can deny that this is a contentious issue.

On the other hand, who of us wants to preserve the right to drive MVs on public roads soley to kill people?

[Newt]

I don't see a connection to gun control at all. One important reason why some folks want to preserve the right to own weapons is so they can kill other people if they deem it necessary. No more, no less. Nobody can deny that this is a contentious issue.

On the other hand, who of us wants to preserve the right to drive MVs on public roads soley to kill people?

Well if you listen to some of the “Global Warming” whack jobs you'd think that's what fossil fueled vehicles are killing us all.

On the other hand, the Interstate Compact Act regarding vehicle registrations, license and touring privileges of one states’ residents to be honored in other states allows the same type of vehicles the WISDOT will not title to drive thru the state all day long. Kind of a moot point huh? A NJ registered Pinz can “tour” the state for months.

[TopKick]

Government is supposed to work for us, not against us. From time to time, we have to remind them of that. In order to accomplish the effort, we must get of our A$$ and speak out for ourselves. I went to the Kansas State Capitol with Kevin Lockwood, (a good friend) and spoke for all of our collective rights. I spoke for every member of the MVPA, explaining how our military vehicles are restored and maintained with great care and passion in an effort to preserve our military history. I support this hobby. I was born an American, I served in the United States Army for 21 years as an American, I fought in war as an American, I live as an American, I will die as an American, I will be buried as an American, and I will be remembered as an American. You guys in Wisconsin need to seriously rally your members and have a heart to heart with your Congressional Representatives. Remember, the key word is REPRESENTATIVE in that they represent YOU! They are voted into office. They can be voted out! Everyone else here who shares in this hobby needs to pay close attention to what's going on in Wisconsin and take heed to what is going on in your own individual states, especially after this ordeal in Wisconsin is concluded.

What I don't understand in this forum is the internal badgering and instigating of a few here. What is your intent? This forum is about folks possibly losing their rights to license their HMV's in the State of Wisconsin. It's not about you nitpicking and belittling folks. Start your own forum and title it, "Bashing Brawl" or something. We need constructive assistance here, not you immature behavior! "Don't Tread On Me"!

Out Here,
TopKick

[tamnalan]

Topkick, there's undoubtedly many good folks in Wisconsin and elsewhere, just as patriotic and nation-serving as you are, who differ with you on some issues. We HMV owners should respect these differences. The strength and challenge of our elected representatives is to recognise our differences of belief and accommodate everyone as best as they can.

Not sure who's belittling or badgering? My point is that references to gun control and Nazi-ism won't help the Wisconsin HMV registration issue.

[wreckless]

You are distorting the example given way out of context to purposely destroy the message. Whatever your personal opinon may be it does not change the facts that fracturing the HMV front increases the chance of incremental loss of driving priviliges for all HMV's. Lets try to keep that noble goal in sight.

[tamnalan]

Exactly.

[TopKick]

Tamnalan,
I was not referring to the folks in Wisconsin. You state "We HMV owners should respect these differences", yet your actual comments, "I don't see a connection to gun control at all. One important reason why some folks want to preserve the right to own weapons is so they can kill other people if they deem it necessary. No more, no less. Nobody can deny that this is a contentious issue. On the other hand, who of us wants to preserve the right to drive MVs on public roads soley to kill people?" and your Nazi comment, " So, Wisconsin's elected and appointed officials are Nazis? Wow. Maybe that state has deeper problems" are most disrespectful. I strongly support the Second Amendment! I do not own guns solely to kill people. Wreckless is quite correct in his reply to you. It's obvious you and I are on opposite sides of the fence. However, your sarcasm isn't helping matters in this effort, or on this forum. The State Representatives of Wisconsin are doing no one any favors by banning HMV's from being licensed and registered, therefore being illegal to drive on public roadways. The strength of our elected Representatives is to rise to the challenge of being able to recognize what makes good common sense and not waste the tax payers dollars with frivolous ventures. Oh, the squeeky wheel thing...I throw it away and get a better one.

[tamnalan]

My point was that CobraDoc's quote can easily be taken as linking the Wisconsin legislators as Nazis. I don't believe he meant it that way, but I can easily see how someone in Wisconsin might be quite offended at it. I believe that to be the disrespectful issue.

HMVs in Ohio constitute only a very small fraction of total registered vehicles, and I'll wager the same status holds in Wisconsin. Let's face it, we're a tiny minority. Undoubtedly the Wisconsin DOT is more interested in public safety and road preservation than in preserving a few HMV owner's rights. We HMV owners need to make the case that our vehicles are safe and don't rip up the roads. Rational arguments will sell. Shrill claims of patriotism and "slippery slope" rights erosion won't cut it.

Linking Wisconsin HMV registration rights to gun control or abortion or any other hot button issue would be a disaster.

[undysworld]

the Interstate Compact Act regarding vehicle registrations, license and touring privileges of one states’ residents to be honored in other states allows the same type of vehicles the WISDOT will not title to drive thru the state all day long.

Newt,
You know, this was one of the 'fairness' issues I pointed out long ago. Drivers from all over the U.S. could drive their Pinzgauer through Wisconsin legally, but we Wisconsin residents, voters, and taxpayers couldn't.

The whole point of the Highway Safety Act of 1966 was to provide some nationwide standards for vehicles which operated on the nation's highways. There was intended to be some uniformity. Wisconsin DOT acting to set new levels of standards, at their discretion, is wrong. But we're preachin' to choir members here.

To All,

I'll ask that everybody please refrain from too many analogies to other issues. This is a complex enough one by itself. The whole point of this thread is to inform and educate Wisconsin voters to hopefully make a difference. I'm confident you've all meant well, but let's keep the gun/nazi comments to PMs. It would be unfortunate to have a useful thread erased because of an offhand comment. Thanks. Paul

[TopKick]

Tamnalan,
Those analogies were not made to the legislature. They were made to all of us here in this forum. Cobra Doc's analogy was to remind us, all of us, not to allow history to repeat itself. There was nothing disrespectful about it. It's too late to change what you have stated Tamnalan, as we have all read your comments, so get off the "Slippery Slope" soap box. Rights are rights. We either have them, or we don't. We are eithere free or we are not. It's as simple as that. However, any State Representative who is worth his salt should be here on the G-503 reading this forum. I would. I would want to see what HMV enthusiasts around the globe have to say about this topic. I would also see that for the most part, all are normal every day, law abiding, freedom loving Americans or people who are free. I would see that these folks have the same passion for old GI iron as the Mustang Club members have about their ponies, or the Corvette members who love their Stingrays. I would also see that this is an important part of the preservation of our military history. I would be proud to support a bill that would allow these vehicles to be registered and remain on our public roadways.

I have often been told by many Veterans they were glad to see one of my HMV's, while I was just out driving around for the day. One gentleman talked to me one day at the gas station while I was fueling my M3A1 Scout Car. He told me the Scout Car was the very first automobile of any type he ever drove. He said he must have put a pound of metal shavings in the bottom of the gearbox learning how to drive a stick and double clutch at the same time! I once pulled a gentleman out of a snowy ditch with my M2 Half Track. I did not charge him a dime, even though he tried to pay me. I have alsways had positive meetings with folks in public when out in one of my HMV's. Folks who have never served in the military have also complented me in regards to my HMVs.

Tamnalan, I believe you should apologize for your behavior here!

Out Here,
TopKick

[Greencom]

When I got my 42 jeep last fall here in PA I went to my local AAA office to get a title transfer and registration for it, after all the photos and documents etc. was completed the guy who was processing it told me to not be surprised if the PA DOT does not like the stars on it. It seems that ex military vehicles were getting harder to license in PA. I did have to resubmit everything again a month later but I finally got it on the road legally, sounds a bit ominous to me, this problem could spread around the country.