Have found a US Navy M38A1

1952 - 1968, M38A1, M170, questions, discussions, regarding anything related to the M38a1 series.
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softskin_driver
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Have found a US Navy M38A1

Post by softskin_driver » Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:24 pm

There is some weird stuff going on with this A1. The dash plates look original as does the rear fender plate all have three coats of paint one looks like Air Force Blue.
The Willys fender tag# is MD 52777 Engine block # is MD 70442 and the Navy dash plate has its Reg. # as 94-48598 SN# 93105 its YR. MFD is 1963. All the plates have the same layers of paint on them starting with what looks like semi gloss USMC green then Air Force Blue then a coat of some strange bubba green and the green now showing. There is very little rust and no rot that I can find.
It has the hinged front grill but the single clamp battery box and a whole bunch of other mix and match parts. Has lots of Antenna holes and holes in the rear upper quarters.
Has a 24 volt alternator and the cut out for the 100 amp system in the radiator shroud. Couple pictures included.
Question what do you think this A1 started its life as does any of this jive. :)
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Re: Have found a US Navy M38A1

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:10 pm

The body appears to be prior to mid 53 as it is missing the brackets for the left and right tie rods that go to MD after Chassis 60406. These bodies were built for the hinged radiator guard. The body also lacks the extended outrigger at the mid point of the passenger side frame rail that would be on 55 and up M-38A1. Where are the two floor drain holes for the front of the tub, are they at the sides next to the toe boards or are they in next to the center floor pan. Is the frame have the center support for the late radiator guard? Can you post a pic of the inner portion of the front frame horns and the type of spring shackles that are installed. This appears to be a Jeep built up out of salvage parts. Note the CJ parking brake.
Something strange though is the late clamp style battery box lid that did not appear until chassis 63252. Take a look to see if the thumb screw holes for the early battery box lid have been filled in.

It looks like the thumb screw holes are still visible at the battery box.
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Re: Have found a US Navy M38A1

Post by Dokimos » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:46 am

Also something weird with the emergency brake drum, looks liek from a M38...
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Re: Have found a US Navy M38A1

Post by Dokimos » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:47 am

Dokimos wrote:Also something weird with the emergency brake drum, looks liek from a M38...
p.s. don't through away those original spring cushions...
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Re: Have found a US Navy M38A1

Post by softskin_driver » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:19 pm

I will post more pictures tonight and sand around that battery box lid.
I was going to post some of this on the Willys m site but I looked at the registry and how the pictures need to be posted and its not getting updated and this works easier for me.
I want to be sure this M38A1 is of no historical value just an old Jeep before I dig into it. :|
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Re: Have found a US Navy M38A1

Post by softskin_driver » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:18 pm

Did not have to sand just poke the holes through with an awl they had what looks like JB weld in them and the threads look good there are two bolts broke off. This 63 has had a late model battery box lid added. Bubba is getting tricky.
Also I believe this M38A1 to be a 1953 but need those with serial numbers close to mine to verify that. I believe because I scraped the paint off the fender tag from Willys that the Number MD 52777 is the serial number of at least the tub. And the motor number is MD70442. Need some help with these. Anyone with a 52 or 53? Here are a few more pictures.
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Re: Have found a US Navy M38A1

Post by Joe Gopan » Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:51 am

Definitely 1953, the front floor drains are next to the body sides. The chassis is also the 52-53 type and was made for the hinged radiator guard Grooved Springs indicate they are replacements, they were installed on later 50's M-38A1 and all CJ-5 thru 71. Grooved springs were the most common replacement for the M-38A1.
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Re: Have found a US Navy M38A1

Post by softskin_driver » Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:38 pm

I really started scraping on this 38A1 today and other than big spiders with red hour glasses I can find only minimal rust lots of crud though. If its a 1952 or 1953 it is well preserved for 62 years old.
Not all the springs are grooved. I found a 52 in one of the rims they look original they have more rust than rest of the Jeep.
I am finding more Bilco than Bubba and by Bilco I mean there is no hot wrenching just motor pool parts from dead ended vehicles it looks like. Everything is added in a way that can be easily repaired.
The only real issue is the wrinkled rear quarter and the 20 holes in each rear upper sponson. And of course the parts from all different era's of 38A1 bolted onto a frame of dubious origins. Are there serial numbers on these frames? How can I tell if its early or late and ball park its date of manufacturer. Also I think I have one early and one late front fender. So I will need to find someone with the opposite issue to trade late for early. Anyone know why they changed the front fenders?
This Willys might be the trail rig I have wanted to build I mean its already foul so no harm in dropping in a V6 and T98. :shock:
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Re: Have found a US Navy M38A1

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:53 am

The Frames for Hinged Radiator Guard are for M-38A1 prior to Serial No. 60406, they have no provision for the late Radiator Guard that mounts to the Chassis via the center mounted bracket that is not on this one.
Hinged Radiator Guard existed thru mid 53.
Did you compare the features of the cowl on this Jeep with those having the tie rods to the radiator guard such as on your M-170? The body prior to 60408 do not have the brackets for the rods.
If an early tub needed replacement, the latest tub would be installed as the Army only stocked the latest version.
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Re: Have found a US Navy M38A1

Post by softskin_driver » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:33 pm

Thanks Guys for all the info I am pretty sure from the info I have from here and looking at my 1961 M170 this is just a plain vanilla early 1953 M38A1 nothing special. The tub and engine numbers I am 99% sure are correct the dash plate was stuck on there by some needing a title. I will keep the Navy info because the person this Jeep came from had a few he scraped so I am sure that plate came off of a roached jeep he cut up.
When I wet sand the hood if there is anything there I will post pictures.

Thanks again

:) :) :)
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Re: Have found a US Navy M38A1

Post by softskin_driver » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:22 pm

here are a couple more pictures showing the rear panel and what looks like an original spare tire carrier is it real or a very bad reproduction?
Is this the correct mounting holes or is this all wrong?
thanks
:)
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Re: Have found a US Navy M38A1

Post by Joe Gopan » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:00 am

Rear panel looks OK, the spare tire bracket is attached with random non OEM bolts.
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Re: Have found a US Navy M38A1

Post by softskin_driver » Mon Aug 04, 2014 5:40 pm

Was told today that that spare tire carrier is for an M38 not knowing the difference is there any one here that knows the difference between the two?
This one is bolted together. Also crawled under and my parking brake is an internal type could this also be M38?
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Re: Have found a US Navy M38A1

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:49 am

There were several brackets installed on the M-38A1, first was the 673344 which was the same as M-38, (and appears to be what is on yours) it was installed thru chassis 40951.
There were two more newer Brackets used on later M-389A1, 689016 which had welded on angle iron to reinforce the upper and lower part, and 689190 which had the upper and lower portions welded together and not bolted.
There was also an MWO to weld angle iron to those without in order to prevent cracking.
Yours is the early 673344 bracket and it missed the MWO. It is missing a little support on the bottom which presses against the tire.

If your transfer is M-38, it may still have the female filler plug on the side that is 1/2", and if the assy is GI and not CJ the transmission will have the screw on cap on the gearshift cover. M-38 also has a longer lever on the brake and the pivot pin for the transfer levers screws into the bracket and has no set screw.
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