axe and shovel

1952 - 1968, M38A1, M170, questions, discussions, regarding anything related to the M38a1 series.
circleburner12
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axe and shovel

Post by circleburner12 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:17 pm

i have access to a axe and shovel from the pioneer kit for the humvee. what is the difference, if any. between m38a1 and humvee axe's shovel's . thxs


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Re: axe and shovel

Post by Zane Gross » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:35 am

nothing, should work fine , just make sure the shovel handle is not the recent plastic handled issue.
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circleburner12
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Re: axe and shovel

Post by circleburner12 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:55 am

thxs zane, much needed info.

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Re: axe and shovel

Post by circleburner12 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:08 pm

got the axe and shovel, just a quick look at the two the shovel might work but the axe looks too long. cam some one give me the measurements of the two. need as quick as possiable if someone has the measurments. thxs

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Re: axe and shovel

Post by DJ » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:27 pm

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:57 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This has been around for a while,I got it on the M Seriessite




From Kevin at Star Electric Ordinance

For all: About three years ago, I began to offer the pioneer tools. I took the sizes for the tools from the tool lists published for the various M-series vehicles. The axe, mattock and mattock tools were straight forward. The shovel took further digging. I contacted the military sales rep for True Temper tools. He told me that the gov't specs allowed a variation in the length of the shovel. The overall length could run 34 3/4" to 36 1/4". This explains the variation in length of the shovel's shown in TB ORD 2300-2-/4, dated 18 August, 1958. It is titled "Stowage Locations For Pioneer Tools And Brackets". It has photo's showing where the pioneer tools and brackets are located on all of the Army's wheeled vehicles, starting with the M-38. There are three different kinds of shovels shown throughout the TB. The shovel lengths shown show handles protruding just over the end of the bracket and others fitting inside the frame. The shovel for the M-38 is different, than the shovels for all the other M-series vehicles. Because the M-38 body is virtually the same shape as the MB/GPW, it has to bend around the edged protrusion of the body tub in order that the shovel blade and the shovel handle lie flush against the body. This is achieved by a sharp bend or arc of the metal neck of the shovel. This sharp bend was eliminated as no other vehicle required that shape. The other shovels are more flat and were easier to make as the wood handle did not have to be shaped to match the curve of the blade neck. If you put a regular shovel on an M-38, then your handle will stick out about three inches from the body. It looks ok and most people will not notice it.

Given all that, here are the specs for the tools:

AXE: Single bit, 4 lb head weight, 4.750 inch cutting head, 31.00 inch handle length, Federal Spec GGG-A-926, type 1, class 1, design A.

MATTOCK: Pick type; without handle, 5 lb head, Federal Spec GGG-H-506, TypeII, Class F.

MATTOCK Handle, Hickory, 36.00 inch length, Federal Spec NN-H-93, type 5, Class 1, Grade B.

SHOVEL, Hand, Round point, open back construction, 12.500 inch blade length, 10.250 blade width, DF-style handle, Federal Spec GGG-S-326, Type 4, Class A, Style 1, Size 2.

In reference to painting, the tools came from the factory in civilian colors. The wood was natural and unpainted, axe heads were red, the shovels usually had a natural steel color blade with the D-handle grips being red. It was usually at the unit level, that commanders would dictate painting them to match the vehicle. Kevin.
_________________
Kevin B. Emdee
Star Electric Ordnance (M-series electric parts)
368 Big Oak Trail
Radcliff, KY 40160
1-270-877-0813 (Fax-5042)
Kevin.Emdee@comcast

circleburner12
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Re: axe and shovel

Post by circleburner12 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:19 am

the humvee axe and shovel i got is alittle long.

the shovel is about 2-3 inche to long to fit the way it should be. the axe is to long and hits the back of the pass seat unless i angle it to go between the seat and wheel well.

has anyone cut down the two from the humvee pioneere kit to fit to the a1?. if so please explain the way you did this. thxs michael

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Re: axe and shovel

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:53 am

The M-38A1 Axe is the standard Military 4# axe w/36" Handle that was also used in WWII. The handle will extend slightly forward of the wheelwell and between the seat and body, and is not in the way. There was no special shortened axe made for the M-38A1, that story is unfounded..
The M-38A1 was in service 30+ years before the Humvee. The Shovels issued with new Humvees since the mid 80's are longer for some reason than those issued in the 40's 50's for Jeeps and other MV's.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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circleburner12
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Re: axe and shovel

Post by circleburner12 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:53 pm

thxs joel, the overall lenght of the axe is 34 1/2. so i'll leave the axe along and shorten the shovel which looks to be about a 1-2 inches from setting in the mounts correctly.thxs

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Re: axe and shovel

Post by circleburner12 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:16 am

well i shorted the shovel by alittle to fit inside the bracket, but now when i try to shut the hood the shovel hits the rad support rod. any ideas? thxs

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Re: axe and shovel

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:42 am

Best to find a WWII era Shovel, remember, the M-38A1 came aboard the Army in 1952. Shovels and axes were never issued according to the type vehicle, they were kept at unit level supply rooms and issued as needed. Same goes for the Axe, it was the same 4# 36" 41-A-1277 Axe as issued for all MV's.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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circleburner12
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Re: axe and shovel

Post by circleburner12 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:50 am

thxs joel, maybe someone will post a pics of there a1 with rad supports with a shovel installed under the hood.

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Re: axe and shovel

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:01 am

I''ll get some for you later with GI Issue shovels from WWII-Korea era.
I don't carry the shovel in the M-38A1 as they tend to loosen and rattle no matter how well they fit. The bracket for the blade is not the best design.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

circleburner12
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Re: axe and shovel

Post by circleburner12 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:45 am

thxs joel, and i agree on the design. thxs

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Re: axe and shovel

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:20 pm

Here's the shovel and GI Issue axe installed on my M-38A1.
The AXE is Standard 4# 36" Handle GI ISSUE
The lengths of the three GI Issue shovels are from front to rear;
37-7/16" (Installed on Jeep)
37-1/4"
37-3/4"

NOTE the Drivers' side ROD, dash to air deflector, the position of the bend and how it is under the bracket on the firewall.

Note the WWII style A-2602 Type 1 Tip on the Shovel Strap. The Hood was NOS in the Wrapper dated 1953 from Sam Werner back in the 70's.
Attachments
shovel_006[1].JPG
shovel_006[1].JPG (75.6 KiB) Viewed 2046 times
shovel_003[1].JPG
shovel_003[1].JPG (59.08 KiB) Viewed 2046 times
shovel_001[1].JPG
shovel_001[1].JPG (67.76 KiB) Viewed 2046 times
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

circleburner12
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Re: axe and shovel

Post by circleburner12 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:22 pm

ok, ive got the rod bolted on top of the mount, i'll change that over. but the shovel in the first pic look almost like the same shovel i have. the angle and all. joel look for a email that im going to seen you with this shovel mounted. let me know what you think. feel free to post the pic on the forum in case someone else is wondering. i would but dont really know how to post a pic to the forum. thxs


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