Need Help with Brakes

[Dave W.]

Hi Group,
I am fairly new to Jeeps. I acquired a 42 MB a few months ago and use it as a summertime daily driver. I live in a mountain area where there is only one main road and I can usually keep from slowing traffic because the max speed limit varies from 25 to 45 MPH. The problem is the brakes are marginal at best. I have heard that there is a larger bolt-on brake assembly for the MB. Would appreciate any advice on where I could acquire a set and info on how much they will improve the ability to slow down and stop.
Thanks,
Dave W.

[Bob N]

Dave I went the way of the disk brake...from Brazil. It is not the cheapest by any means and it is fraught with monetary hazards. ...but they work great. On the downside...it looks like I won't be able to run combat rims (but at least postwar stock rims fit (mostly)...you can read about disk brakes on my website www.42FordGPW.com . My jeep with the Brazil brakes:



If stock size wheels and tires aren't a problem to you there is also a Chevy/CJ disk brake system you can employ as pictured below:


Now to answer you question someone here in the past said Archer Brothers used to have them and may still.

The problem with all this is you will end up with something like I have....


BUT you will have better, stronger brakes.

[JAB]

I have heard that there is a larger bolt-on brake assembly for the MB. Would appreciate any advice on where I could acquire a set and info on how much they will improve the ability to slow down and stop.

I think what you heard about are (or were) the kits that upgraded your brakes to 11" X 2" shoes & drums. Although it is HUMONGOUS improvement, it isn't as good as discs. The advantages of the disc brakes on your little jeep are that they hardly ever fade (compared to drums), work well even after a dunking (driving thru water), & don't wear out rapidly when you pack them full of mud. As Bob N. stated they can be expensive & complicated to adapt, irregardless of what the donor was (CJ, Eldo/Toro, Brazilian kit, etc.)

The 11" kits that were available several years ago were nothing more than (1974) CJ-5 (or certain wagoneers, Cherokees, CJ-6, etc.) brakes. They are an easy bolt-on project with no other mods (but a dual master cylinder would make things that much safer!) needed to fit them. (I do not know if they clear combat rims.) IMO for an MB/GPW the 11" brakes are a good, safe, affordable, easy to install/un-install modification that isn't so complicated that you make it unsafe due to a lack of understanding. The larger piston bores don't seem to deplete the master cylinder & repair parts are readily avalable. If you can't find or afford the kit you could possibly buy all four sets at a junkyard (backing plates, drums, etc.) & rebuild/replace the worn components. Before I upgraded to 4-wheel discs on my '62 CJ-5 I was happy with the 11" conversion that I bought from Four Wheel Parts Wholesalers in the late '70's (except when wet or when the mud would pack in there & wear out a set of shoes in one weekend! ) & I have 36" diameter tires on that & the vehicle is considerabley heavier than an MB/GPW (& heavier than it used to be).

[Dave W.]

Thanks for the input. I had though about disks but want to be able to still use my Combat Rims. I only drive a couple of miles a day on one road and just need a little extra braking power. My off-roading is very limited and I don't plan on doing much mudding. The dual master cylinder sounds like a smart addition and I will look into it when I do the brake mod.

Still looking for a source for a complete kit. I am handy with a wrench, but would rather buy a complete kit than search through various junkyards. If anyone is aware of a vendor that is currently producing a brake kit, please let me know.
Thanks,
Dave W.

[Will]

Hey Bob you NDT back on the Jeep. So much for dirving in the snow

[Bob N]

Now come on driving in the snow is a piece of cake in NDTs (these are referred to as mud and snow tires by the Army during WW2). The only problem is when you have light snow on paved roads....then you have no direction tires on

[JAB]

would rather buy a complete kit than search through various junkyards

I just did a search on Four Wheel Parts Wholesalers. They still list the kit in their catalog but it's been discontinued . It did state though that it was of the Genuine Gear brand, so maybe you could find them through that manufacturer.

[Mark Tombleson]

Dave, some years ago I installed a set of 11" on the back of my jeep. They advertized them for the early jeeps but they would not fit the MB/GPW knuckle assembly. They needed a 2A knuckle. That just lead into more issues as the tie rods needed to be changed (more modifications then I was interested in). So I only installed them on the rear.

I know there is someone still out there making these conversions but I cannot remember who. Ask someone like Advance Adapters or Novack, I'm sure they would be able to send you to the right place.

[JAB]

they would not fit the MB/GPW knuckle assembly. They needed a 2A knuckle. That just lead into more issues as the tie rods needed to be changed

I forgot about that issue.

[Bob N]

Then you have to wonder if your COMBAT WHEELS will still fit. At least with the disk brakes (neither setups) I didn't have to goober up the tie rods or switch knuckles (although I did have to have some spacers created (twice...guess I can't measure or guess correctly). And you can use standard jeep roadwheels...haven't tried combats....they could be made to work with some more spacers. BTW I ended up using lug bolts from a mustang.

The point of this is not to believe anyone person without asking lots and lots of questions. On my first disk brake job, it never occurred to me that the dam n original wheels wouldn't fit. On the second brake job I was happy just to get the standard wheels with 6.00x16 tires. Even then you have to be willing to grind a wee bit of material from the "spokes" of the wheel. Doesn't seem to be a big deal. I also removed a wee bit from the calipers. They really works sweet. The next major improvement would be the dual line master cyclinder setup.

The reason the combats may not fit...have tried yet for sure...is that it has bolts that stick out and may be in the way of the caliper. Could be that no reasonable amount of spacers will help.

[Jeff H]

Just curious.

Did the 11" kits that used to be available include the knuckles/tierods or whatever was needed to make it work? Or were they not specifically for the MB/GPW's, but the CJ's.

[JAB]

I am only aware of the CJ version & like I stated earlier, it has been discontinued.

[F Bill]

Go over to the willys tech parts for sale board and you should find a guy selling the 11 inch kits. Don't know who it is, or how good the kits are, but it's worth a call anyhow!

From the Willys Tech Parts board:

"Just a reminder that I'm still offering 11 inch kits to upgrade early jeeps and willys. E mail me for more info and pricing.
Ryan jeepzzzz@aol.com"

Ryan Hopkins - Portland Oregon
503-869-2072

[Andrew]

Have you tried the front discs and calipers of a Suzuki 4WD? I think in the States you call them a Samurai. Here in Oz we call them a Sierra or Vitara but it is the small light weight Suzuki that I am talking about. The wheel stud pattern is the same as a Jeep and by comparing the disc and caliper set up you might find it could be easily adapted. As for the master cylinder, you might be able to fit a unit off a 1979 - 1986 Dodge D50 which is a tandem master cylinder of 7/8 inch bore which won't affect your pedal height but gives you the safety of a dual circuit. Obviously, brackets would need to be manufactured to mount the master cylinder and the calipers to the stub axles.

If power assisted brakes are what you are after then mounting a remote power brake unit off one of the early 3 series BMW's can be done to boost all your brakes. If you want to know more let me know.

[Andrew]

Have you tried the front discs and calipers of a Suzuki 4WD? I think in the States you call them a Samurai. Here in Oz we call them a Sierra or Vitara but it is the small light weight Suzuki that I am talking about. The wheel stud pattern is the same as a Jeep and by comparing the disc and caliper set up you might find it could be easily adapted. As for the master cylinder, you might be able to fit a unit off a 1979 - 1986 Dodge D50 which is a tandem master cylinder of 7/8 inch bore which won't affect your pedal height but gives you the safety of a dual circuit. Obviously, brackets would need to be manufactured to mount the master cylinder and the calipers to the stub axles.

If power assisted brakes are what you are after then mounting a remote power brake unit off one of the early 3 series BMW's can be done to boost all your brakes. If you want to know more let me know.