VACUUM WIPER MOTORS

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW modifications, sugestions, and ideas, official MWO's and unofficial WWII field mods NO EBAY or COMMERCIAL SALES.
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Rod Rushton
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VACUUM WIPER MOTORS

Post by Rod Rushton » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:55 am

Is there any information on overhauling the vacuum wiper motors, in particular the "valve gear"
When I restored my Jeep, I fitted used wiper motors, but the passenger side is very reluctant to work properly. The drivers side works just fine, but turn on the passengers one and it slowly prescribes one very slow arc - then nothing.
I have tried introducing duck oil and WD40 down the inlet tract, which did help for a while, but it has reverted to its old one arc trick.
Some time ago, I dismantled the shuttle valve, but it fell to pieces and I changed the motor for another one - with no improvement in performance.
I have checked there is a good vacuum.
Also what decides how big the arc should be? on my old G506 Closed Cab Chevrolet, the drivers side prescribed a 90 degree arc, whereas the passengers was
120 degrees!
Now that winter is here, I thought it would be a good idea to sort them out.
Rod Rushton - Winner 2013 MVT Wilkinson Sword Trophy
Exeter Devon UK
FORD GPW 202055 DoD 5 - 22 - 44 Serial# 20534360
MBT # 25553 DoD 4 - 43
Piper Cub 1944 L4H 480015 G-AKIB

1942 CHEVROLET G506 CARGO. #2NM 213219
1943 AUSTIN LIGHT UTILITY M6448770


Wolfman
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Re: VACUUM WIPER MOTORS

Post by Wolfman » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:16 am

I have been into vacuum wiper motors but it has been a long while. Seems there was a paddle with a seal that was attached to the wiper arm shaft. The paddle would sweep back and forth in a semicircular shaped cylinder. At the end of the stroke, a spring loaded selector valve would be tripped to put vacuum on the opposite side of the paddle to reverse paddle direction.
Mostly two problems occurred. The paddle seal would deteriorate and leak, causing the problem you described. Slow or no movement. Or, the shuttle valve would stick. The wiper would go one way and stop. Not return.
The knob to turn the wipers off by-passed the shuttle valve and put vacuum on the paddle to move the arm to the stowed position.
The length of travel was determined by when the shuttle valve was tripped.
Hope I got this right. That is how I remember it. :roll:
Mike Wolford
CJ-2A
VEP GPW
Comm./Inst. SEL
AOPA ( 50 yrs)
EAA ( 49 yrs)
4th Inf. Div. - 5th Inf. Div. - 2nd Armor Div. - CIB

Rod Rushton
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Re: VACUUM WIPER MOTORS

Post by Rod Rushton » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:21 am

Hello Mike
Thank you for your response. Over the years I have dismantled several motors carefully, but either they worked or didn't! I tried introducing a little duck oil spray into their chambers which sometimes worked for a while, probably until it dried out.
What I have found is some have a 90 degree sweep and others 120 degrees, but I can't work out how this happens, and suspect the little valves are tripped depending on the requirement.
I just wondered if there was such a thing as a TM on them?
I am about to carry out my annual maintenance and one of the things on the list is to "fix" the passenger side one, which used to work but has slowly ceased. From your comments I will again investigate the little shuttle valve.
I think one of the main problems is really with the fact that there is no constant vacuum when the throttle is depressed for more power for the engine. On old Ford cars of the '40's and '50's there was quite a large vacuum tank, but with the Jeep there is very little room to fit anything.
Whatever - they are still an improvement on the hand operated system in my opinion.
Rod Rushton - Winner 2013 MVT Wilkinson Sword Trophy
Exeter Devon UK
FORD GPW 202055 DoD 5 - 22 - 44 Serial# 20534360
MBT # 25553 DoD 4 - 43
Piper Cub 1944 L4H 480015 G-AKIB

1942 CHEVROLET G506 CARGO. #2NM 213219
1943 AUSTIN LIGHT UTILITY M6448770

Wolfman
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Re: VACUUM WIPER MOTORS

Post by Wolfman » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:05 am

Don't know why there would be a different sweep on a jeep. The wiper motor was centered on each window panel and both panels are the same size. Maybe had to do with wiper blade and arm length ?? A shorter set up would have more sweep than a longer one ??
Never saw a TM for the vacuum motor, or the electric either. Seems I do remember a repair section for a vacuum wiper motor in an "old" Motors or Chiltons manual. I have an old Chiltons that might go back that far. I will look.
Loss of wiper action with a vacuum set up was an issue. Left you flying blind on acceleration. Shortly after vacuum wipers were introduced, mechanical fuel pumps with a vacuum boost pump came out. The later CJs had one ( a vacuum boost pump ). That helped a little. I worked on a Pontiac Chieftain not long ago with one. In line 8 cyl. engine. 8)
The early GPWs had individual wipers. Armstrong powered. Driver and passenger worked their own. Later the two were hooked together with a rod. The passenger could run both from his side. First vacuum were better, maybe, but still had a lever on the back so you could help it when it slowed down. Finally the lever was removed and of course now all are electric. That's progress.
Mike Wolford
CJ-2A
VEP GPW
Comm./Inst. SEL
AOPA ( 50 yrs)
EAA ( 49 yrs)
4th Inf. Div. - 5th Inf. Div. - 2nd Armor Div. - CIB

Joe Gopan
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Re: VACUUM WIPER MOTORS

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:30 am

TM9-1801 ORDNANCW MAINTENANCE, Power Train and Bodies for the CCKW has 3 Pages of repair and Maint. Correct lube is TRICO Wiper Lubricant. I have used GAA as it is ideal consistency and has wide temperature range. There is a TM for Trico Wipers, but I do not have that information at hand.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
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COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

Wolfman
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Re: VACUUM WIPER MOTORS

Post by Wolfman » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:36 am

You may have struck a nerve, Joel.
Maybe both of Rod's motors are not for a jeep ??
Maybe one jeep and the other something else, like a CCKW ??
That could explain the different sweep angles.
The CCKW definitely has a larger windshield.
Mike Wolford
CJ-2A
VEP GPW
Comm./Inst. SEL
AOPA ( 50 yrs)
EAA ( 49 yrs)
4th Inf. Div. - 5th Inf. Div. - 2nd Armor Div. - CIB

Joe Gopan
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Re: VACUUM WIPER MOTORS

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:41 am

CCKW open cab, some T-214 Open Cabs, MB/GPW, US-6 Open Cab, CJ-2A, and M-37 all used the ORD 500844, S-583-1 Windshield Wiper Motor.
Closed Cabs used the Trico KSB's.
Correct sweep is determined by application and part Trico number. All S-583 Wiper Motors have identical arc.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

Joe Gopan
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Re: VACUUM WIPER MOTORS

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:28 pm

Can you post a pic of the wiper motors you are referring to? I can do some more searching for Trico KSB' as used on G-506/508 Closed cabs after I Identify the type.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

Rod Rushton
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Re: VACUUM WIPER MOTORS

Post by Rod Rushton » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:51 am

I know the motors I used are not the correct ones for the Jeep - I think I took them off a GMC or possibly a Weapons Carrier. They also park on the "Wrong" side. But beggars can't be choosers, and anything is better than the hand cranked ones.
The one on the passenger side is the one which stalls, but when working had a sweep of 120 degrees.
The drivers side works fine, but only has a sweep of 90 degrees.
I'm about to give the Jeep its annual service and also take the opportunity to fit a set of disc brakes to the front axle; making the wipers more effective is also on the "TO DO" list
I thought I would ask if there was a TM as I have several TM's for non vehicle parts and even one for a Waltham pocket watch!
Rod Rushton - Winner 2013 MVT Wilkinson Sword Trophy
Exeter Devon UK
FORD GPW 202055 DoD 5 - 22 - 44 Serial# 20534360
MBT # 25553 DoD 4 - 43
Piper Cub 1944 L4H 480015 G-AKIB

1942 CHEVROLET G506 CARGO. #2NM 213219
1943 AUSTIN LIGHT UTILITY M6448770

Wolfman
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Re: VACUUM WIPER MOTORS

Post by Wolfman » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:19 am

Hey Rod.
:idea:
I still have not found the manual I think I have for vacuum wiper motors, but
I googled " vacuum wiper motor rebuild ".
Anything you want to know, you just have to ask the right question on the web.
There is a wealth of intel.
Be quicker than waiting on me to find something I am sure I have but can't find. :mrgreen:
Mike Wolford
CJ-2A
VEP GPW
Comm./Inst. SEL
AOPA ( 50 yrs)
EAA ( 49 yrs)
4th Inf. Div. - 5th Inf. Div. - 2nd Armor Div. - CIB

Rod Rushton
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Re: VACUUM WIPER MOTORS

Post by Rod Rushton » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:52 am

Thanks, I'll give them a go.
Cheers R
Rod Rushton - Winner 2013 MVT Wilkinson Sword Trophy
Exeter Devon UK
FORD GPW 202055 DoD 5 - 22 - 44 Serial# 20534360
MBT # 25553 DoD 4 - 43
Piper Cub 1944 L4H 480015 G-AKIB

1942 CHEVROLET G506 CARGO. #2NM 213219
1943 AUSTIN LIGHT UTILITY M6448770

mahughes
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Re: VACUUM WIPER MOTORS

Post by mahughes » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:30 pm

Joel, you said..."I have used GAA as it is ideal consistency and has wide temperature range."

What is GAA?

Thanks,
Mark
1944 Willys MB #336328 "Charlotte"

Joe Gopan
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Re: VACUUM WIPER MOTORS

Post by Joe Gopan » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:53 am

Automotive Artillery Grease, aka Grease, Automotive, and Artillery. It was the widely used lube in MV's from 50's thru 80's. When you get rich, I may be able to help you with Trico S-583, Willys 663636, ORD 800544 Wiper Motor or two for your G-503 Jeep.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO


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